Management Plan for Developed Water Sources in Mojave National Preserve

[tony270]

The comment period has been extended to May 19, 2018 for the
Management Plan for Developed Water Sources in Mojave National Preserve has .

I'm for maintaining what has already been built. If they do decide to let them go or remove them we should be able to save the sources that are 50 years old or older under the 1906 Antiquities Act.

https://parkplanning.nps.gov/projectHome.cfm?projectID=32532

danette_woo@nps.gov or (760) 252-6107.

Comments on the project will be accepted from March 20 through April 19, 2018 (Edit, comment period has been extended to May 19, 2018). They may be submitted here or posted. All comments must be received no later than April 26, 2018.

Contact Information
Superintendent
Attention: Water Resources Management Plan
Mojave National Preserve
2701 Barstow Road
Barstow, CA 92311
https://parkplanning.nps.gov/project...rojectID=32532

[tony270]

TTT
Please leave a comment that supports keeping and maintaining the water sources as they are in the MNP. Have you ever seen a guzzler, there's so many configurations, hike to a few and take a look.
Over the decades many species have become dependent upon them.

[tony270]

I know where several water cistern are that General Patton's troop constructed, I just happened to stumble into them, gold miners constructed them too.

[Stevehazard]

Just to give people a better idea of what the stupid NPS intends to do regarding small game guzzlers is that if it happens to fall on the other side of an arbitrary imaginary wilderness boundary the plan is to abandoned it. Irregardless as to how far or little it may be on the other side of the line. No consideration was given as to how easy or difficult it would be to perform maintenance and repairs. Many of these are inside of 200 feet to the wilderness boundary and close to 25 feet from an old service road or wash, meaning realistically minimal vegetation would be disturbed by the work.

If you look at page 93 of their report they have their general locations mapped out and color coded as to if they are in the wilderness or not. All the ones colored green are the ones they intend to abandoned. This is going to kill guzzlers grouped together. It is very arbitrary. Nothing about it is strategic or speaks of any planning. Completely bureaucratic decision based upon the wilderness boundaries and really no consideration was given to the history, use, and wildlife in this regard. The area surrounding hole in the wall and midhills will be hit pretty hard over time. Those guzzlers need repair as is.

[Jimmy's]

The state will do nothing good for hunters, animals. They have removed most all man made structures including all that have anything to do with water with the exception of the few tanks for the remaining cattle and the minimal springs that feed those tanks. And I know they broke down at least two drinkers for the sheep. Yes I worked on one of them twice in 1982 it is now gone. When they kicked us all out they took over my friends Valley View ranch for the A-hole crew members to use as a base. They tore down the bunk house and the old guest house and barn then killed two of the springs as well as dismantle the main windmill. There's only one reason for doing so to the latter. It kills the wildlife off.

[JagerDog]

Just to give people a better idea of what the stupid NPS intends to do regarding small game guzzlers is that if it happens to fall on the other side of an arbitrary imaginary wilderness boundary the plan is to abandoned it. Irregardless as to how far or little it may be on the other side of the line. No consideration was given as to how easy or difficult it would be to perform maintenance and repairs. Many of these are inside of 200 feet to the wilderness boundary and close to 25 feet from an old service road or wash, meaning realistically minimal vegetation would be disturbed by the work.

If you look at page 93 of their report they have their general locations mapped out and color coded as to if they are in the wilderness or not. All the ones colored green are the ones they intend to abandoned. This is going to kill guzzlers grouped together. It is very arbitrary. Nothing about it is strategic or speaks of any planning. Completely bureaucratic decision based upon the wilderness boundaries and really no consideration was given to the history, use, and wildlife in this regard. The area surrounding hole in the wall and midhills will be hit pretty hard over time. Those guzzlers need repair as is.

Sounds like .gov to me.

[Stevehazard]

The repairs for small game drinkers aren't even done by the state or the government which is the frustrating thing, they are done by groups like WFW or different upland chapters. The only reason they don't get repaired is because some idiot decided to not allow it.

The more widespread issue here is that areas designated as wilderness need to be reworked universally as they don't allow for reasonable management and maintenance. This effects more then hunters. I know of lesser traveled backpacking trails that are pretty much destroyed because nobody is going to go up there and cut a hundred dead falls with handsaws.

[Jimmy's]

No the new breed of people wont cut those dead falls by hand or do anything else to help themselves because they are damn Lazy and need everything done for them.

[Stevehazard]

I wouldn't say that people are lazy if you consider that many times these sorts of things are often done by volunteer groups. If your restricted to non mechanized tools your severely limited as to what you can accomplish in a given period of time. If they have to do it all by hand the time they have to do things has to be prioritized and the lesser used areas don't get the attention they should.

[Jimmy's]

I wouldn't say that people are lazy if you consider that many times these sorts of things are often done by volunteer groups. If your restricted to non mechanized tools your severely limited as to what you can accomplish in a given period of time. If they have to do it all by hand the time they have to do things has to be prioritized and the lesser used areas don't get the attention they should.

Take a wild guess how we fixed guzzlers and water tanks for sheep. By hand, Concrete, epoxy, paint, tar, dirt, lumber, water, tools, wheel barrows. We volunteered to fix what we new should be done. One time we had a small tractor to work with. Either you care and help or you sit on your arse and let others do it. Simple as that. On that note guess how all the hiking trails we follow were made back in the day and are still maintained the same way. It's not the internet out there it's real life seat of your pant's get it the hell done!

[tuna quesadilla]

Take a wild guess how we fixed guzzlers and water tanks for sheep. By hand, Concrete, epoxy, paint, tar, dirt, lumber, water, tools, wheel barrows. We volunteered to fix what we new should be done. One time we had a small tractor to work with. Either you care and help or you sit on your arse and let others do it. Simple as that. On that note guess how all the hiking trails we follow were made back in the day and are still maintained the same way. It's not the internet out there it's real life seat of your pant's get it the hell done!

Is there any way I can help now, or is that long gone?

[Jimmy's]

Get in touch with Jim Matthews from Western outdoor news, he is on Twitter and the best guy they ever had Dave Campbell He is retired now but still writes a story now and then for the real magazines. www.davecampbelloutdoors.com

[Jimmy's]

Entered too quickly, also Wild sheep foundation or California big horn foundation. Can't remember the actual name. Google is the source.

[kakinuma-kun]

Made my comment. The plain fact is that, with encroachment and the cut off of historical migratory routes by development, highways, etc., animals are no longer able to move between mountain ranges, so they need help where they stay.

[bigbossman]

Get in touch with Cliff McDonald's group Water for Wildlife. They hold regular guzzler repair events in the cooler months. Lots of fun and the volunteer man hours are part of the formula for the distribution of Pittman-Robertson funds (that's 11% excise tax we pay on guns and
ammo), so the more the merrier.

http://www.waterforwildlifeemd.com/

Just took a look at that webpage, and perused the project photos. I noted they all had one thing in common..... most all the volunteers were older folks.