Firearms in Forests and Parks

[17+1]

Well from what I can tell the NP LE seem to have been brought up to date on both the new federal change, and even California PC including 12031(e). So then I guess it depends on what your definition of "hassle" is, combined with what a particular LEO's understanding of how far he can go with an (e) check. It's really uncharted territory in most areas right now. However, IMO you won't have the weapon confiscated nor be arrested.

Thanks for the info!

I suspect most people won't notice, like it was in the Shasta Trinity NF...if they do, I understand what LEOs are and are not legally allowed to do. I will most likely be covering the serial numbers with small pieces of tape as, during their inspection of the mag and chamber, they are allowed to 'observe' the serial numbers. I will also have the open carry pamphlet outlining the laws of carrying, although I will not have my license or HSC on me, as they are not required for open carry.

[exklusve]

I had a question that I'm not quite sure if it was already answered.

I frequently camp in the Sierra National Forest in a small camping area.
There is a sign on the info board that says 'no firearms' (or firearms prohibited).
(can they prohibit firearms, or just prohibit shooting?)

If firearms cannot be prohibited, only shooting, I should be able to UOC everywhere in the area correct? (no schools, or other restricted areas for MILES)
Once I'm 150 yards away from all the campsites, LOC will be ok correct?


"*2 - Loaded Open Carry is legal in areas where shooting is not prohibited, and in one's campsite (12031 et al)
*2 - Shooting is prohibited within 150 yards of any residence, building, campsite, or developed site, or on/across a road or body of water"

So since shooting is prohibited within 150 yards of roads, LOC is prohibited within 150 of roads?



Thanks!

[MudCamper]

I frequently camp in the Sierra National Forest in a small camping area.There is a sign on the info board that says 'no firearms' (or firearms prohibited). (can they prohibit firearms, or just prohibit shooting?)

They do not have the authority to ban firearms. Do you know what local ranger district this is? I would like to call them. There is still a code (36 CFR 261.57) that allows them to restrict possession in Wilderness Areas, but given Heller I doubt this would be legal. I've also never heard of any Forest actually ordering this. They do sometimes prohibit shooting, which they do have the authority per another code (36 CFR 261.58) to do. Is this in a Wilderness Area?

If firearms cannot be prohibited, only shooting, I should be able to UOC everywhere in the area correct? (no schools, or other restricted areas for MILES)
Once I'm 150 yards away from all the campsites, LOC will be ok correct?

Correct. Plus you can also LOC in your own campsite, per the 12031 "temporary residence or campsite" exemption.

So since shooting is prohibited within 150 yards of roads, LOC is prohibited within 150 of roads?

Not within 150 yards of roads. It's on or across roads, and within 150 yards of buildings, developed areas, etc. So you can LOC right off the road.

[exklusve]

I'll see if i can find a picture of the info board, to make sure if it says 'no shooting' or 'no guns'.

The local ranger is the Bass Lake Ranger District office in North Fork.

[17+1]

Last question:

What constitutes open carry of magazines? My belt holster may be 'iffy'...

I have a dual mag belt holster for the magazines but there is a velcrow flip top that causes the magazine to be completely covered. Pull up on the cover and the baseplates and half an inch or so of mag body is visible, but not so when it is closed.

I was thinking it may be wise to safety pin the top open so there is no question...

Thanks for any info you can provide!

[IrishPirate]

So are State Recreation Areas the same as State Parks since they are run by State Parks Employees???? What's the difference between a S.P. and a S.R.A.????

[MudCamper]

Last question:

What constitutes open carry of magazines? My belt holster may be 'iffy'...

I have a dual mag belt holster for the magazines but there is a velcrow flip top that causes the magazine to be completely covered. Pull up on the cover and the baseplates and half an inch or so of mag body is visible, but not so when it is closed.

I was thinking it may be wise to safety pin the top open so there is no question...

IMO you do not need to go to these extremes. The only reason anyone can even argue that a concealed magazine is a concealed handgun is with the very tenuous People v Hale decision. It is highly unlikely that this will even come up in rural areas. And having them in belt holsters that completely cover them with a flap does not conceal them just like a handgun in a full flap holster is not concealed per 12025(f). (At least until/if AB1934 passes, when 12025(f) will be deleted from the PC.)

So are State Recreation Areas the same as State Parks since they are run by State Parks Employees???? What's the difference between a S.P. and a S.R.A.????

CPRC 5003.1go here, and browse your way through to Title 14, Division 3, Chapter 5.

[17+1]

So trip was good, saw a ton of cool stuff!

I was approached by a Park Ranger requesting to check the pistol:

Me: Hello

Ranger: Hello, is your pistol unloaded?

Me: Yes, you may E-check. (I turn away from him)

Ranger: Ok, (to my wife) please step over there (gesturing for her to move a few yards to his weak side). Place your hands on your head and interlock your fingers please(demonstrates).

Me: Ok.

Ranger: (unholsters pistol and inspects chamber) Good! That's what I like to see! (reholsters pistol) Thank you.

Me: You're welcome.

Then I shook his hand, lol.

He also told me that of the 4 people he has checked, I was the only one carrying UOC. The 3 others had their guns confiscated and were written up.

[Trench Broom]

Thanks for all the research, MudCamper! This information is very helpful.

[bug_eyedmonster]

I'm having a hard time distinguishing where I can and can not carry. I'm going to Yosemite this weekend, and we are car camping at Tuolumne Meadows Group Campgrounds at Yosemite National Park. From what I've been reading, there are certain places where I can and can not carry here. I asked a friend of mine who frequents this area, but he could not give me a straight area. We will be hiking away from camp for two of the three days up there, and I'm not sure where. Can someone help? I'd like to bring some sort of print out with me to the park in case we are stopped, but this thread has too many things I'd couldnt begin to understand... =)


Jerry

[bug_eyedmonster]

I'm having a hard time distinguishing where I can and can not carry. I'm going to Yosemite this weekend, and we are car camping at Tuolumne Meadows Group Campgrounds at Yosemite National Park. From what I've been reading, there are certain places where I can and can not carry here. I asked a friend of mine who frequents this area, but he could not give me a straight area. We will be hiking away from camp for two of the three days up there, and I'm not sure where. Can someone help? I'd like to bring some sort of print out with me to the park in case we are stopped, but this thread has too many things I'd couldnt begin to understand... =)


Jerry

any info would help, I called my contact at DOJ, and he was also somewhat unclear about all of this. From what he said, at the camp site, I can carry concealed and loaded. When hiking or on public trails, I can open carry, as long as the gun is unloaded.

Jerry

[vladbutsky]

In short: in the national parks (like Yosemite) you can UOC everywhere except in federal buildings that have posted "no firearms" signs and school zones that apparently present in some parks. LOC is a different story - it is like a minefield. I would suggest to read this thread before you decide to LOC. But UOC is fine. Just make sure you magazines are visible too. Concealed magazine can be seen same way as concealed carry.
BTW, I'm not a lawyer so take my advise as such and decide to OC or not for yourself

[17+1]

In short: in the national parks (like Yosemite) you can UOC everywhere except in federal buildings that have posted "no firearms" signs and school zones that apparently present in some parks. LOC is a different story - it is like a minefield. I would suggest to read this thread before you decide to LOC. But UOC is fine. Just make sure you magazines are visible too. Concealed magazine can be seen same way as concealed carry.
BTW, I'm not a lawyer so take my advise as such and decide to OC or not for yourself

DO NOT LOC IN THE NATIONAL PARKS!!!!

Buildings are clearly marked...although the crappers are not, so wizz at your own risk. lol

any info would help, I called my contact at DOJ, and he was also somewhat unclear about all of this. From what he said, at the camp site, I can carry concealed and loaded. When hiking or on public trails, I can open carry, as long as the gun is unloaded.

Jerry

You will be e-checked if you encounter a NP Ranger, as I was. If you are carrying hot, your gun will be confiscated.

Parks are an area where discharge is prohibited, so that means loading is prohibited as well. Rangers tend to be friendly and know the laws, you will be ok if you're carrying UOC. I'd recommend having friends/significant others there as well to witness the e-check and observe the contact with the Ranger.

[MudCamper]

any info would help, I called my contact at DOJ, and he was also somewhat unclear about all of this. From what he said, at the camp site, I can carry concealed and loaded. When hiking or on public trails, I can open carry, as long as the gun is unloaded.

Sound like you got good information from them. That is correct.

[MudCamper]

DO NOT LOC IN THE NATIONAL PARKS!!!!


You will be e-checked if you encounter a NP Ranger, as I was. If you are carrying hot, your gun will be confiscated.

Parks are an area where discharge is prohibited, so that means loading is prohibited as well. Rangers tend to be friendly and know the laws, you will be ok if you're carrying UOC. I'd recommend having friends/significant others there as well to witness the e-check and observe the contact with the Ranger.

But this is all because 12031 prohibits loading in "prohibited areas" which we all know by now is defined as anywhere you are prohibited from shooting. HOWEVER, 12031 also is self-exempting in one's "temporary residence or campsite" so you are free to load there.

17+1, are you saying that the rangers you have encountered are not aware of this exception? If not we need to educate them.