Firearms in Forests and Parks

[Lead-Thrower]

This is an excellent thread. I just need some clarification on one thing though. I go hiking/backpacking up in Desolation a lot, and once had a rather uncomfortable encounter with a mountain lion, so I figure that carrying a sidearm would be prudent in case I am seen as a menu item next time. So from what I have gathered from this thread, keeping a sidearm inside my backpack (loaded or unloaded, doesnt matter) constitutes concealed carry. But if I keep it on the outside it is open and legal. Is this correct?

I understand the rules for open carry, but am uneasy about carrying openly for fear of startling other hikers I may run into. Not to mention that hiking 10-20 miles with a 1911 on my side would be uncomfortable... (yeah I know, plastic gun fans enter your comments here)

[vladbutsky]

... Not to mention that hiking 10-20 miles with a 1911 on my side would be uncomfortable... (yeah I know, plastic gun fans enter your comments here)

I hiked many times with my 1911 openly visible on me and saw quite a few people on trails but never saw anyone being scared of me being armed. It just never happened to me so far. People either do not see it at all or if notice it - they don't care.
I also usually carry heavy backpack or at least my camera backpack with lens and other stuff (~20lb) so adding few lbs for 1911 and couple mags does not change much anyways Feeling of freedom is totally worth it!

[MudCamper]

This is an excellent thread. I just need some clarification on one thing though. I go hiking/backpacking up in Desolation a lot, and once had a rather uncomfortable encounter with a mountain lion, so I figure that carrying a sidearm would be prudent in case I am seen as a menu item next time. So from what I have gathered from this thread, keeping a sidearm inside my backpack (loaded or unloaded, doesnt matter) constitutes concealed carry. But if I keep it on the outside it is open and legal. Is this correct?

I understand the rules for open carry, but am uneasy about carrying openly for fear of startling other hikers I may run into. Not to mention that hiking 10-20 miles with a 1911 on my side would be uncomfortable... (yeah I know, plastic gun fans enter your comments here)

Yes unless you have a CCW permit, carrying concealed without a locking case is not legal. You could keep it in a small plastic locked case in your pack. Or open carry. Also, I believe fishing is allowed in Desolation, so if you bring your fishing license and a pole, you could take advantage of the 12027 exemption and carry concealed without a locked case.

One thing to think about. If you have another encounter with a mountain lion, what good will that pistol do you buried in your pack?

[Lead-Thrower]

Thank you for the clarification. I may end up open carrying next time I go on a hiking trip. I understand that keeping the pistol in the backpack might defeat the purpose in a time of desperate need anyways, but I was just afraid of startling other hikers.

[ArticleTheFourth]

Yes unless you have a CCW permit, carrying concealed without a locking case is not legal. You could keep it in a small plastic locked case in your pack. Or open carry. Also, I believe fishing is allowed in Desolation, so if you bring your fishing license and a pole, you could take advantage of the 12027 exemption and carry concealed without a locked case.

One thing to think about. If you have another encounter with a mountain lion, what good will that pistol do you buried in your pack?

Do you know if you can conceal carry loaded with this 'fishing' exemption or does it have to unloaded? Do most rangers (DFG) know how to deal with this exemption? Just wondering.

[ArticleTheFourth]

Doh, should have read the OP!

I went back and read your initial posts (didn't know you were the OP, just following a new post to a long thread - should always go back and read initial posts )

Can carry concealed but must be UNLOADED when fishing or hunting.

Kudos for all of the great information in those initial threads!

[GuyW]

Can carry concealed but must be UNLOADED when fishing or hunting.

How did you reach this erroneous conclusion?
.

[ArticleTheFourth]

How did you reach this erroneous conclusion?
.

I got this from OP's second post:

State PC 12027 exemption to 12025 (abridged)

Quote:
12027. Section 12025 does not apply to, or affect, any of the following:

(g) Licensed hunters or fishermen carrying pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person while engaged in hunting or fishing, or transporting those firearms unloaded when going to or returning from the hunting or fishing expedition.

Remember Lead-Thrower's question and OP's followup about 12027 that I was asking a followup question to in a few threads back was about carrying a handgun open or concealed while backpacking in Desolation essentially traveling to and from fishing (or hunting). It appears that that you must carry unloaded while traveling (backpacking), but maybe that is just a judgment call of when you should decide to load your handgun while transitioning from traveling to actively hunting or fishing.

Transition time could be long.

[GuyW]

For the benefit of newbies walking in:

You posted:

"Can carry concealed but must be UNLOADED when fishing or hunting."

But cite the PC where it says

"Can carry concealed but must be UNLOADED WHEN GOING TO / COMING FROM fishing or hunting."

The proper conclusion is:

"Can carry concealed and LOADED when fishing or hunting, and can carry concealed but must be UNLOADED WHEN GOING TO / COMING FROM fishing or hunting."

.

[ArticleTheFourth]

For the benefit of newbies walking in:

You posted:

"Can carry concealed but must be UNLOADED when fishing or hunting."

But cite the PC where it says

"Can carry concealed but must be UNLOADED WHEN GOING TO / COMING FROM fishing or hunting."

The proper conclusion is:

"Can carry concealed and LOADED when fishing or hunting, and can carry concealed but must be UNLOADED WHEN GOING TO / COMING FROM fishing or hunting."

.

I do believe you are correct on the last sentance.

I did give you the PC that the OP wrote at the beginning parts of this thread and I did not put my original language in quotes so it was not an extraction from PC, it was simply my own opinion from the OPs vast amount of information on this topic. I'm not a lawyer (just an engineer) and have not studied the actual PC on this topic.

The real issue here is whether or not one can carry loaded and concealed while backpacking on public wilderness for the purpose of hunting or fishing at the destination. Would it depend upon how far the backpacking portion was? Would it depend upon whether one is crossing several different types of public land while backpacking?

Essentially, is the backpacking defined as 'going to / coming from' or is it defined as 'fishing or hunting'? I would say the former until you get close to your destination. How close would depend upon the length of the backpacking, but that's just my opinion.

[MudCamper]

Essentially, is the backpacking defined as 'going to / coming from' or is it defined as 'fishing or hunting'? I would say the former until you get close to your destination. How close would depend upon the length of the backpacking, but that's just my opinion.

I have wondered about this as well. Once I'm miles up into the wilderness, IMO I am on my "expedition", not traveling to/from it. But this is just opinion, and opinions vary. My current MO is to simply UOC (with loaded mags on weak side) at all times just to keep things simple for myself.

[ArticleTheFourth]

MudCamper, I agree with you; thanks for all the information.

I see we are in the same neck of the woods. I'm on the west side heading out towards Bodega.

[MudCamper]

I see we are in the same neck of the woods. I'm on the west side heading out towards Bodega.

Small world. I grew up on Furlong Rd. Live south of town now.

[Bizarro]

OK so I call the Angeles National forest station and ask about the rules regarding open carry of a psitol while hiking in the Angeles national forest. The officer said that by law I could carry, but that it would scare people into calling 911 then they would have to come out and basicly put me on the ground at gun point and investigate what I'm up to. I was told to simply hide it or keep it out of sight so that people wont get scared. I then asked if this is a CCW violation, in which I was told yes...but that they would understand and its no big deal.....why does this sound like a load of BS? So I'm being told that I can legaly do something ,but if I do I'll be treated as a criminal and to illegaly carry my pistol so i don't upset anybody. Am I missing something?

[MudCamper]

OK so I call the Angeles National forest station and ask about the rules regarding open carry of a psitol while hiking in the Angeles national forest. The officer said that by law I could carry, but that it would scare people into calling 911 then they would have to come out and basicly put me on the ground at gun point and investigate what I'm up to. I was told to simply hide it or keep it out of sight so that people wont get scared. I then asked if this is a CCW violation, in which I was told yes...but that they would understand and its no big deal.....why does this sound like a load of BS? So I'm being told that I can legaly do something ,but if I do I'll be treated as a criminal and to illegaly carry my pistol so i don't upset anybody. Am I missing something?

So the Forest Service employees are not only telling you that they would illegally detain you but that you should break the law.

Don't listen to them. Do what is legal. Better yet, ask them again and record the conversation.