SURVIVE! Knives GSO-4.5 Standard - Your Thoughts?

[Elgatodeacero]

Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VsifANR96s

[rlewpolar]

SURVIVE! Knives GSO-4.5 Standard - Your Thoughts?

Why would anyone place an order for this company?s knives (even though they are reputedly nice) when there are SO MANY excellent makers and readily available knives in the similar out there? Nothing says to a company ?get your act together? like a cessation of orders coming in.

4 years to get a knife? Lol, give me a break. If I?m going to wait that long for a knife, it?ll be from Nathan the Machinist at Carothers Performance Knives. Anyone else, oh hell no


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[TrappedinCalifornia]

Did you get your knife yet?

Not yet. I'm about 3 or 4 days short of the "90 days" from the time of the order and I wouldn't necessarily expect it to come at the 90 day mark. Ship, maybe.

There may be some reason to 'hope' in that he was sending some 4.5 Standards out for heat treat a week ago (18 seconds in on the video)...



A concern I have, not knowing how they actually handle materials, is that the 3 Color Camo G10 scales I put on the order are currently lined off as not available for order on the GSO 4.5 Standard. I'm hoping they simply received enough orders to assign to all the stock they had and won't be 'delaying' orders already placed with those scales.

Another concern is that he's still not talking about the GSO 4.5 Standard, despite it being one of the two offerings, when I ordered, and, now, one of four offerings where they claim on their Production Schedule page...

The EDC-4, EDC-4 FFG, GSO-4.5, and GSO-5.1 will be on-going SURVIVE! models that we aim to have in constant production with the goal of having them be more readily available. These will be our main offerings with other models being made in between these runs.

Coupled with their (finally) updated page where they claim only 29.6% of knives ordered in 2023 have been fulfilled and 33.4% from 2022 have been fulfilled...

Again, I'm hopeful, but far from complacent or confident.

Such is especially true in that he did not specify whether those being sent out for heat treat were intended to fill current orders (not to mention how many orders vs. how many blanks) or if they are going to be 'replacements' for the decarburated 4.5 Standards they used to produce a couple of other versions.

In short, he needs to put out a 4.5 Standard specific video which provides information on that blade. Even at that, proof is in the delivery, not repeated videos about new employees, bad actors, good intentions, etc. I'm willing to cut him a little slack. However...

Why would anyone place an order for this company?s knives (even though they are reputedly nice) when there are SO MANY excellent makers and readily available knives in the similar out there? Nothing says to a company ?get your act together? like a cessation of orders coming in.

4 years to get a knife? Lol, give me a break. If I?m going to wait that long for a knife, it?ll be from Nathan the Machinist at Carothers Performance Knives. Anyone else, oh hell no

I'm not gonna wait "4 years" either. Such is particularly the case in that the one I ordered is supposed to be one of their 'more readily available' models.

As I said earlier in the thread, I have other knives which are perfectly usable. Likewise, I think they have been through a series of bad breaks. In other words, I didn't go into the order either blind or blindly optimistic.

Knives are, like guns, a matter of personal taste and sense of aesthetic. If any ole' blade in a 'similar' size/shape/style will do ya, you're good to go. If you're a bit choosy in terms of size/shape/style, then a certain amount of patience and acquiescence isn't unexpected; even if begrudgingly allowed for.

But, note that I said "a certain amount," not 'indefinite.' As I said above, at the end of May, I figured I'd take a chance; but, I will not be happy if this takes "years" or even if it goes too late into the year to be of use until next season. Where I intend using it, the first, it's gonna stick the rest of the winter snowfall traditionally happens in the first couple of weeks in November, with a token smattering of snow dropping once or twice prior to that in a 'wet/cold/normal' year.

As a result, let's simply say I have a bit of a 'deadline' in mind. Beyond that 'deadline,' I'm going to go from fidgety to grumpy to unhappy to... well... let's not go there.

[rlewpolar]

Not yet. I'm about 3 or 4 days short of the "90 days" from the time of the order and I wouldn't necessarily expect it to come at the 90 day mark. Ship, maybe.

There may be some reason to 'hope' in that he was sending some 4.5 Standards out for heat treat a week ago (18 seconds in on the video)...



A concern I have, not knowing how they actually handle materials, is that the 3 Color Camo G10 scales I put on the order are currently lined off as not available for order on the GSO 4.5 Standard. I'm hoping they simply received enough orders to assign to all the stock they had and won't be 'delaying' orders already placed with those scales.

Another concern is that he's still not talking about the GSO 4.5 Standard, despite it being one of the two offerings, when I ordered, and, now, one of four offerings where they claim on their Production Schedule page...



Coupled with their (finally) updated page where they claim only 29.6% of knives ordered in 2023 have been fulfilled and 33.4% from 2022 have been fulfilled...

Again, I'm hopeful, but far from complacent or confident.

Such is especially true in that he did not specify whether those being sent out for heat treat were intended to fill current orders (not to mention how many orders vs. how many blanks) or if they are going to be 'replacements' for the decarburated 4.5 Standards they used to produce a couple of other versions.

In short, he needs to put out a 4.5 Standard specific video which provides information on that blade. Even at that, proof is in the delivery, not repeated videos about new employees, bad actors, good intentions, etc. I'm willing to cut him a little slack. However...



I'm not gonna wait "4 years" either. Such is particularly the case in that the one I ordered is supposed to be one of their 'more readily available' models.

As I said earlier in the thread, I have other knives which are perfectly usable. Likewise, I think they have been through a series of bad breaks. In other words, I didn't go into the order either blind or blindly optimistic.

Knives are, like guns, a matter of personal taste and sense of aesthetic. If any ole' blade in a 'similar' size/shape/style will do ya, you're good to go. If you're a bit choosy in terms of size/shape/style, then a certain amount of patience and acquiescence isn't unexpected; even if begrudgingly allowed for.

But, note that I said "a certain amount," not 'indefinite.' As I said above, at the end of May, I figured I'd take a chance; but, I will not be happy if this takes "years" or even if it goes too late into the year to be of use until next season. Where I intend using it, the first, it's gonna stick the rest of the winter snowfall traditionally happens in the first couple of weeks in November, with a token smattering of snow dropping once or twice prior to that in a 'wet/cold/normal' year.

As a result, let's simply say I have a bit of a 'deadline' in mind. Beyond that 'deadline,' I'm going to go from fidgety to grumpy to unhappy to... well... let's not go there.

I hope you get it soon and post some pics. They are supposedly very nice knives. Fingers crossed for you


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[TrappedinCalifornia]

I hope you get it soon and post some pics. They are supposedly very nice knives. Fingers crossed for you

I hope I get it 'soon' as well.

If and/or when it comes, I planned to review it after some use as several have requested it. However, photos may not happen as I don't have an image hosting service and I don't know if I can post images directly, not knowing how I can do it if it's possible.

Hopefully, as I indicated earlier, there is some kind of update forthcoming, with actual delivery not far behind. I'm edging on really hoping to get this thing and giving it a try.

[TrappedinCalifornia]

Just as an update...

I tried calling SURVIVE! Knives today, looking to see if I could get some sort of update as to where I'm at in the queue, and all I got was a recorded message saying they are hard at work. Interestingly, they claim all 'new' orders will be filled within the 90-day window. Yet, my order was placed in May and their own Production Schedule page indicates less than 1/3 of knives ordered this year have been delivered. Worse. Their automated phone system says their message box is full and cannot accept new messages. In addition, it is still listed as Kellogg, ID and they moved to Pennsylvania from Idaho back in March; i.e., not necessarily indicative of anything, but just another, potential 'warning sign.'

Ostensibly, last month, they hired someone, part-time, to help with 'communication' (along with other things)...



Meanwhile, I'm seeing an host of new videos highlighting knives, including a 'new' one which he openly admits is a direct and near identical version of one they made for an YouTube stalwart "several years ago"...



Now, to be fair, if you watch the 2nd video, the GSO-4.7 predates the Black Scout Survival knife and there are some minor design differences; but, you'll note he claims in the 1st video it is very similar and $100 less. Such just strikes me as 'wrong' in that, regardless of the similarities, one shouldn't be undermining and marketing directly against a 'loyal outlet' over the last several years (see Post #7).

The sense I'm getting is that he's taking all the money, up-front, on pre-orders to operate as actual deliveries have been slooowwww. As I said before, proof is in the delivery, not repeated videos about new employees, bad actors, good intentions, etc. I'm willing to cut him a little slack. However, when your own website claims that 2023 orders have a 29.6% fulfillment as of the beginning of September 2023, that's another 'warning sign.'

Were these 'custom' knives, I'd be a bit more patient. But, these are production knives and, regardless of personal/professional issues, there should be more delivery output and less 'attention distraction' with regard to 'new' offerings intended to attract even more pre-orders. Likewise, if you cannot communicate with your customers directly, especially after taking their money, it does raise questions and concerns. Such is particularly true when there appears to be material 'shortages' in the options for a given blade; e.g., the MagnaCut was lined out for a bit, is now back, but one of the handle options, the one they tout as one of their 'favorite,' has been lined out for quite some time...



They've still got an increasingly limited amount of time before my personal 'deadline;' but, again, for a production blade, even with the production/personal issues, "roughly a 6-9 month wait on yours regardless of what their production schedule says" (see Post #6) is simply unacceptable; particularly given even that 'extended' time frame is far from guaranteed. It's not just about the wait or the time of year decreasing utility for a period, it's about a company which just doesn't seem to have its act together business-wise, even if they have an excellent product (which I have yet to see first-hand).

I'm still hopeful it works out as I have other blades I'd like to order from them. It's just that I'm concerned this may be falling into the category a friend of mine used to refer to with... "Hope in one hand and @#$& in the other and tell me which one fills up first." We'll see.

[drunktank]

I don?t have much faith in the new guy they hired. I sent an email (with order number in the title and attached) to change some scales on one of my orders.

3-4 days later I get a response asking what my order number is because I have several knives on order?I respond back with the order number (which is now listed 3 times in the same email). No response and that was 3 days ago.

At the end of the day they?re my favorite knife maker, custom or not, so I?ll continue to wait since I have a plethora of blades that get used in a daily rotation. But, if a few of Horsewright?s blades that he?s posted go on sale, I?ll have to go that route hahaha.

[TrappedinCalifornia]

I don?t have much faith in the new guy they hired. I sent an email (with order number in the title and attached) to change some scales on one of my orders.

3-4 days later I get a response asking what my order number is because I have several knives on order?I respond back with the order number (which is now listed 3 times in the same email). No response and that was 3 days ago.

At the end of the day they?re my favorite knife maker, custom or not, so I?ll continue to wait since I have a plethora of blades that get used in a daily rotation. But, if a few of Horsewright?s blades that he?s posted go on sale, I?ll have to go that route hahaha.

At least you got an initial response. I've tried on the phone several times and each time, other than being listed someplace they no longer are, I got that the message box is full. I tried leaving a query on their website, but no response. I may try the e-mail route and see what happens; but, it's not looking promising.

Back in the 90's, I worked as a shipper to supplement my regular job and managed to get 100+ packages out in a day. So, I know what's possible on that score and today's shipping environment is even more 'user friendly' in terms of speed. (We won't talk about the computer system then compared to now.)

As I said, it's a bit 'concerning' that they've spent about 10 - 30 seconds in the videos over the last 4 months showing/talking about the GSO 4.5, yet keep coming out with video after video saying they are 'working hard' and 'look at our new design, pre-order now.' I've been going through the various boards and many feel that such is consistent with what I suspect, that they are working from the upfront funding of purchases, but severely behind (or slacking) on actual deliveries. My suspicion is that they may not be able to afford all the materials for the orders they actually have and are doing a song & dance routine by putting out videos, Facebook posts, et al. while only fulfilling a fraction of the actual orders. (Again, 29.6% fulfillment for the year does not speak well, even considering the move.) Couple that with the actual lack of communication, despite his repeated assurances that they are striving for 'greater transparency' makes me a wee bit nervous.

As I said back in June, I might be a bit overly optimistic in that I was hoping for a 3 - 5 month delivery; meaning that 5 months would be delivery by October. Such would leave 'some time' before the first, serious snows where I could, conceivably, still get to some locations. Again, I feel that would be 'realistic' given that it is supposed to be a production blade which, ostensibly, was to be 'regularly' produced while most of the rest of their offerings weren't quite as 'steady.'

They may produce the best knives the World has ever seen; but, if they don't get one into my hands, I'll never know.

[TrappedinCalifornia]

A bit of an update. The company posted an update video...



Okay. I can see stacking product in the back of your car; but, once again, only a passing mention of the knife model I actually ordered. Meanwhile, they've been cranking out videos on new blades (two of which are even noted in the above video).

I get the distinct impression that they are actually operating off of the monies they get from pre-orders and if they don't get sufficient funding from those pre-orders, production grinds down to a snail's pace. My sense is that they aren't keeping themselves fully supplied on materials and are paying for things like the heat treat on existing orders with monies being generated by new orders. Such would 'explain' some of what I'm seeing in their videos and on their website. It would also 'explain' why they appear to be totally unresponsive to phone calls and queries made on their website.

Again, it's concerning that they take all the money upfront, then totally cut off communication, leaving the customer with the impression that they might get the actual product... someday... maybe. We're now headed into the 5th month on what was supposed to be a 90-day order and the above video is the closest thing I can get in terms of a 'status update' on a model which was supposed to be in 'constant production,' along with their chart on fulfilled orders on their Production Schedule page which states they've only fulfilled 29.6% of 2023 orders as of a month ago today; with unfulfilled orders stretching back for years. In short, I have no way of knowing if "my order" is even among those in the back of his car or what they would project as a delivery date even if it is.

In perusing the thread in Post #5 above, it appears I'm not alone in my surmises. What worries me is that some of the more recent posts indicate that disgruntled customers are now speaking with the Pennsylvania Attorney General's office.

As I stated above, I suspect that what feeds the discontent is a combination of over-expectation (both with the customers and the producer), small business meets big demand for a quality product, reasonable intent but undelivered realities, bad luck, need for cash flow, etc. He may be an honest manufacturer; but, there are too many 'red flags' which are difficult to overlook, particularly given that the same 'story' keeps cropping up. Let's just say I've gone from fidgety to grumpy and I'm looking at 'unhappy' from around the corner.

[Flying Sig]

Thanks for the update. Like I posted earlier, I had a knife on order for 2.5 YEARS before I cancelled the order. The only reason I waited that long is because I forgot I even ordered it in the first place! Anyway, I hope it works out for you.

[rlewpolar]

SURVIVE! Knives GSO-4.5 Standard - Your Thoughts?

A bit of an update. The company posted an update video...



Okay. I can see stacking product in the back of your car; but, once again, only a passing mention of the knife model I actually ordered. Meanwhile, they've been cranking out videos on new blades (two of which are even noted in the above video).

I get the distinct impression that they are actually operating off of the monies they get from pre-orders and if they don't get sufficient funding from those pre-orders, production grinds down to a snail's pace. My sense is that they aren't keeping themselves fully supplied on materials and are paying for things like the heat treat on existing orders with monies being generated by new orders. Such would 'explain' some of what I'm seeing in their videos and on their website. It would also 'explain' why they appear to be totally unresponsive to phone calls and queries made on their website.

Again, it's concerning that they take all the money upfront, then totally cut off communication, leaving the customer with the impression that they might get the actual product... someday... maybe. We're now headed into the 5th month on what was supposed to be a 90-day order and the above video is the closest thing I can get in terms of a 'status update' on a model which was supposed to be in 'constant production,' along with their chart on fulfilled orders on their Production Schedule page which states they've only fulfilled 29.6% of 2023 orders as of a month ago today; with unfulfilled orders stretching back for years. In short, I have no way of knowing if "my order" is even among those in the back of his car or what they would project as a delivery date even if it is.

In perusing the thread in Post #5 above, it appears I'm not alone in my surmises. What worries me is that some of the more recent posts indicate that disgruntled customers are now speaking with the Pennsylvania Attorney General's office.

As I stated above, I suspect that what feeds the discontent is a combination of over-expectation (both with the customers and the producer), small business meets big demand for a quality product, reasonable intent but undelivered realities, bad luck, need for cash flow, etc. He may be an honest manufacturer; but, there are too many 'red flags' which are difficult to overlook, particularly given that the same 'story' keeps cropping up. Let's just say I've gone from fidgety to grumpy and I'm looking at 'unhappy' from around the corner.

I?ve said it before but?.too many good knives and knife makers out there. These high end knives are pretty much unnecessary but we love them because they make us happy. If this is bringing you month after month of frustration, cancel the order and order from someone that can get you what you want. [emoji2369]. My rule is, when an outfit doesn?t return my calls and e-mails, I?m out. That rule has served me well over the years when it comes to women, guns and knives [emoji38]


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[TrappedinCalifornia]

...My rule is, when an outfit doesn't return my calls and e-mails, I'm out...

This factor is weighing heavily and given that we're in the fifth month of what was supposed to be a 90-day order...

Word has it that refunds are rare with this outfit. My suspicion is that many wait too long to request one, largely stemming from several 'reports' that they are cut off at the 6 month mark with whatever payment account they used; i.e., credit card, PayPal, etc.

We've about reached the point where I want either the knife or a refund. One or the other. If they don't and/or won't respond, I guess I'll have to set the wheels in motion from my end.

In some ways, I'll feel bad if pushed into that. On the flip side, I agree with you. Take my money, then go 'radio silent' for an indefinite and indeterminate period when your company ain't all that, a bag of chips, and a drink in terms of its reputation? Couple that with the 'marketing schtick' they have been putting out feeding my suspicions (see earlier posts), which are shared by others, and many 'red flags' are raised, where no amount of claiming 'victim and righteousness' status obviates the red flags.

As I said before, they may actually produce the greatest knives since knives were invented... for their price point. But, I'll never know if they don't get one in my hands and my personal deadline has almost arrived.

[TrappedinCalifornia]

Well... I put in for a refund with the credit card. I'm just shy of 6 months. I tried to get in touch with Survive Knives and couldn't; with no response to their webpage.

When you don't respond to customer queries, you keep producing videos about knives except the one I ordered, you claim receipt of knives from heat treat which include the knife I ordered, but nearly a month later, still no knife received... Let's just say... disappointing.

There's a 218 page thread on Blade Forums which is still being kept current... Survive! Deserves A Permanent Post In The Hall Of Shame. I'll simply say there's a whole lot of speculation, but the one substantive point is that A LOT of people are posting they haven't received their ordered and paid for knife/knives. Those who have claim that took months beyond the "90-day" time frame, with very few exceptions.

Whatever the truth behind their operation, as I said before, there are just too many 'red flags' and they've done virtually nothing to address them. Such is simply unacceptable as a business for a production, not a custom, knife; particularly given the one I ordered is, they claim, always in production. On top of that, if you watch the Production Update video from two days ago...



...the first couple of minutes, for me, tells the tale. 'The only complaint you're going to have is about the delay, not the quality.' (Not to mention his 'admission' toward the end of the video of having put 'too many eggs in the Magnacut basket;' when the knife I ordered was in Magnacut.) Then continuously telling me how many qualitative attributes their knives and production have... Uh... As I said just over a month ago: "They may produce the best knives the World has ever seen; but, if they don't get one into my hands, I'll never know."

I can't say NO ONE is receiving knives as there are a few reports from people saying they got their knife and the quality is...

But... once again, for a production knife, this kind of delay is simply unacceptable and claiming that you NOW know how to do it after 13 years in business just doesn't leave the impression I think he intended. Likewise, with all the discourse on the above, linked thread about disgruntled customers contacting the State AG, you have to wonder if there's some pressure which has been brought to bear from that angle and if that explains the rhetoric in the above video. I mean, seriously, with all the blanks and even finished knives he shows in these videos, yet customers are still complaining about not actually receiving their orders... um...???

I'll give a final update to the thread if/when I get a refund. A good number of people who claim they can't get a refund appear as though they paid through PayPal rather than with a credit card. As I noted before, another consistency is that those who've attempted to get refunds on their credit card purchase did so after six months or more had elapsed and as I'm just shy of 6 months... we'll see.

[j15w]

I hope this company dies.

[rlewpolar]

Glad you finally got off that sinking ship and hope you get your refund soon. Now go buy yourself a nice knife after this fiasco


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