Why I hate the DD RIS II rail

[Sub-Moa]

So a buddy of mine wanted to do a MK18 clone build so I told him I would help him build it since he is new to building AR-15's. I'm pretty biased when it comes to rails because I have used just about everything out there and know what I like. He was dead set on a MK18 so there was no way of getting around the RIS II rail. We used the DD barrel nut wrench so we could properly install it as well. The build went together like every other build until we got to the rail. I use a Geissele reaction rod to install barrel nuts as I feel it is the best way to do it. While torque'ing down the barrel nut, I noticed it wanting to slip off and mar the barrel nut. I had my friend keep the wrench perfectly in line while I conditioned the threads (torque'd on and off.) The wrench started to slip even with our best efforts. I posted a picture below showing the damage. After attempting to condition the threads up to 4 times, the DD wrench wouldn't even get a good bite on the barrel nut anymore. I then decided to try my AR-15 multi-tool. That got a much better bite than the DD wrench. Problem is I can't get an exact torque spec as I could using the DD wrench and my torque wrench. I know it was within the allotted torque range but my OCD wants to know exactly what I am at. I will consult my Armorer at work to see if DD sells the military something different than this wrench. I feel like the dimensions of the tool are off leading to what happened here. DD claims the barrel nut is made of hardened steel. My experience installing countless barrel nuts tells me this is not the case. The steel felt very soft and I have never been that worried about ruining a barrel nut before.




The next issue I had with the DD rail is the location of the anti-rotation tabs on the hardware that sucks up the rail to the upper receiver. I don't know what the official name of this part is. The ant-rotation tabs are seated lower than any other rail I have used before. That wouldn't be an issue if everyone only made mil spec upper receivers. Many companies (Vltor, NFA, Mega, Seekins etc.) make improved upper receivers that have more material in certain places to help add to the rigidity of the upper. In this case, he used a Constantine Billet upper receiver (made by NFA) for this build. Since it wouldn't work, I had to mill about a hundredth of an inch out on each side of the upper receiver. I posted a picture of the lower below. You can see the obvious shelf on the upper receiver. If the anti-rotation tabs were higher, it would have not been an issue.




All in all, it is not a bad rail if you don't care about the barrel nut being on the soft side and if you are using a mil-spec upper receiver. I made it work for my friend and he is more than happy with the result. As for me, I will not touch another one of these rails because companies like BCM have a much better design for attaching a rail to an upper receiver.



Sorry for the long post but hope it was informational to you gunsmiths who have to install DD rail.

Sub-Moa

[Jimi Jah]

Now you know why I used those UTG superslim rails, low cost, easy to mount. Gas tubes line up, no 'adjustments' needed.

[kurby09]

Aaah. Im just about to attempt putting a upper together with the exact same rail!!!! 😱

[WizeWizard]

Mine are all nice and clean.
I have 2 14" rails and a FSP.

http://youtu.be/EkxSegEUZUQ

Fast forward to 12m 30s.
This may have been what you were doing

[Sub-Moa]

Just watched your video. So you're telling me that you should only have 2 of the three teeth on because DD made the tool wrong? You then state when you put torque on to the barrel nut, the third tooth will click in. What that tells me is there is substantially more torque on the first tooth vs the one that "clicks in." There is so many things wrong with that man. Other thing, did you condition the threads in your video? Did you use Aeroshell 33ms anti-seize grease? Not trying to be a dick. I'm just genuinely curious.

I was able to get all three teeth on as well. The tool was brand new and so was the barrel nut.

All I'm getting at is I don't feel I should have these kind of problems when I am working with parts that are half the cost of a cheap AR 15. I use high end parts for a reason to include fit and finish and performance. If the fit and finish is not there, that makes me think the part is lacking in another area as well.

Sure, if this rail was $100, I wouldn't be complaining. Maybe I am just too OCD.

[Sub-Moa]

Just realized that may not be your video. I appreciate trying to help the situation but my opinion still hasn't changed.

[WizeWizard]

Just realized that may not be your video. I appreciate trying to help the situation but my opinion still hasn't changed.

Ya. Not my Vid. I installed with a gunsmith, and sorry if I don't remember the specifics. But there was an issue of spacing. When I got my gunsmith involved, it was a face palm. I wrecked my tool btw. Luckily I had another.
Daniel is GTG. Especially their rails.
Hoping you didn't get a knock off. There are tons.
Sorry about your issue. Daniel has great QC and would replace anything Ya got.

[Sub-Moa]

Definitely not a knock off rail. It was bought from an authorized dealer.

You're privy to your own opinion and I am privy to mine. Crap quality in my opinion.

[WizeWizard]

Definitely not a knock off rail. It was bought from an authorized dealer.

You're privy to your own opinion and I am privy to mine. Crap quality in my opinion.

Actually, it's my opinion along with the rest of the world. Good luck finding someone else proclaiming DD is crap.
But most of all, good luck with your project. I hope you find what you need.

[PolishMike]

1)Where are you getting the requirement to "condition" threads. I've been to top level armorer classes and this was not discussed.

2) How is it Daniel Defense's fault for you using an out of spec/not to spec upper receiver?

I have done a ton of these and have never had a problem. The DD wrench works fine.

[Sub-Moa]

It is not DD's fault for not complying to uppers that are a different spec. That part was posted to help people who are thinking about doing a similar combination.

Your comment on how the wrench works just fine is ignorant. Did you use the exact one I used?

As for conditioning the threads, it is common practice in both building weapons and building engine blocks. I prefer to do it and doesn't hurt anything (except for this case a barrel nut.) Many top tier companies recommend doing this to include BCM.

[seal20]

My buddy and I had a similar issue, buggered up barrel nuts and went through two wrenches.

[ar15barrels]

I posted a picture of the lower below. You can see the obvious shelf on the upper receiver. If the anti-rotation tabs were higher, it would have not been an issue.

The anti-rotation tabs are kept low so that they do not interfere with the picatinny clamping bar.
The picatinny spec calls out the amount of clearance below the rail.
If your rail does not give that clearance along it's full length, it does not meet the picatinny specs.

The cleaner solution to your use of that rail with a non standard receiver is to open up the anti-rotation tabs on a milling machine.

[MXRider]

The armorer who did my RIS II install used a much beefier wrench than what comes with the rail itself. He never even took the one that came with mine out of the packaging and basically said that one is worthless. No issues installing on my BCM upper either.

[ar15barrels]

1)Where are you getting the requirement to "condition" threads. I've been to top level armorer classes and this was not discussed.

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