80% Completion Laws

[fbuccino]

Can anyone tell me the specific law that forbids machine shops from renting time and tooling? I hear a lot of talk that the ATF says this or that, but no specific law.

[fbuccino]

DRH, the link is dead, what did you search on?

[valley82]

Your link does not go to an affidavit either it has been taken down or it is gone???

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[fbuccino]

Ok, so the whole issue is about ownership of the equipment. So if a shop was to "Sell" their CNC to you for a $100 with the understanding it would be donated back to them after completing 1 lower. Would that solve the problem?

[kcstott]

Ok, so the whole issue is about ownership of the equipment. So if a shop was to "Sell" their CNC to you for a $100 with the understanding it would be donated back to them after completing 1 lower. Would that solve the problem?

As of right now the BATFE has not and probably will not put into writing what their interpretation of what is legal as far as ownership[ of the machines and tooling involved.
Many ideas abound I will not post them here but be advised the situation is very touchy. It would be like going to a speak easy for the first time no one will serve you until someone else can vouch for you.

At this point and time my tools are for my builds. I'll still do barrel work but a ten foot pole is required to handle a receiver and that is only used to push it back out into the street.

[BlackCatRacing#13]

Sounds like ..............

Can anyone tell me the specific law that forbids machine shops from renting time and tooling? I hear a lot of talk that the ATF says this or that, but no specific law.

Of Course Your a Newbie around this area
but
Why haven't You Thought of Building this at Your Own HOME

F.Y.I.
the A.T.F. says "Renting any Machine Shop is Illegal"
but
its all about Building these in Your Own HOME is what the Concept is all about





P.S.
You will NOT find any Legit Shop in CALIFORNIA that will Attempt to Help You .... >>>(GOOD LUCK)<<<

[wchutt]

Some still are milling. Legit? Seems to have a lot of happy customers.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=739785

[-hanko]

Ok, so the whole issue is about ownership of the equipment. So if a shop was to "Sell" their CNC to you for a $100 with the understanding it would be donated back to them after completing 1 lower. Would that solve the problem?

Probably not.

Anology...

You sell me a Ferrari and give me a bill of sale for $100.

I take it to DMV and attempt to register it. DMV notes the purchase price is stupidly low. I don't get it registered.

BATFE is not stupid...you won't get a CNC for a hundred bucks...you're still effectively paying a non-licensed firearms manufacturer to complete a weapon for you.

Issues, federal:

Ding...the cnc guy is an unlicensed manufacturer.

Ding...no background check.

Ding...you're violating the law by avoiding an ffl.

Issues, California:

Ding...no ffl for purchase.

Ding...no state registration.

Even if you found a cnc guy dumb enough to try this scenario, as happened in SAC, you can also put yourself at legal risk.

[j-shot]

Here is an ATF affidavit posted in the other thread. It lists the federal codes that the shops are going to be charged with for completing 80% lowers.
Renting out machines and time to complete firearms as a source of income at the business location would result in similar charges for the same codes.
Note that the very expensive machines involved will be seized, any machine shop contemplating doing this at this point in time needs a physiological examination.

http://www.justice.gov/usao/cae/news...%20Package.pdf

PDF with fixed link

http://www.justice.gov/usao/cae/news/docs/2014/2014_02/02-27-2014Cortez%20SW%20Package.pdf

[bksa]

all they need to prove is intent

Ok, so the whole issue is about ownership of the equipment. So if a shop was to "Sell" their CNC to you for a $100 with the understanding it would be donated back to them after completing 1 lower. Would that solve the problem?

[kcstott]

Well the dirt bags in Sac deserve every bit of what the ATF gives them and subsequently what Bubba gives them as well.
Holly crap these guys were bold face law breakers.

[wchutt]

Somebody is looking for a cease and dessist letter it looks like...

So they were!

[CSACANNONEER]

So they were!

LOL

[edgerly779]

I bought a mill and a lathe to do my own projects. I maintain my shop equipment using them and build items, repair my own firearms, etc.

[leok20]

Some still are milling. Legit? Seems to have a lot of happy customers.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=739785

No at the end of that thread they say they are not taking any more customers.


"I said good day!"