80% Milling Loophole

[BMXnotFIX]

Saw someone on another thread mention that since if you drill one hole, cut the frame rails, etc on an 80% it technically becomes a firearm, you could then take the frame/receiver to a smith and have them mill the rest legally. Is this a legitimate loophole? I'd love to be able to have my 1911 frame and ar lower milled that way if so.

[JoshuaS]

I don't know. But assuming you are in CA, you are a no go on the 1911. You are prohibited from manufacturing a pistol unless you submit it to the CA DOJ for testing for the roster, or it falls under an exempt category. I highly doubt you intend to incorporate microstamping

[choprzrul]

As I understand all of this, the lower manufacturer submits samples to the BATF. Based upon the submitted samples, the BATF issues an opinion letter to the mfg stating that they are producing something that is NOT considered a firearm.

Now, based upon your scenario, do you have a subsequent letter from the BATF stating that your now altered hunk of metal does indeed qualify as a firearm?

I don't think that the BATF has some formula dictating 79%, 80%, 81%....etc. It is either a firearm or it isn't. As such, I believe that the only way to know is to alter and submit.

.

[crufflers]

The best way I have heard to do this is to take it to a CNC place that does the 80% milling. They have a 80% build party - when it is your turn you place the piece in the machine and hit the START button - so you made it. The place I was looking at was in San Diego. I don't know of any near Sacramento (where I am at). Woulda been worth a trip down south though.

[BMXnotFIX]

Joshua, where are you getting that information? Everything I've read says there is no legal issues with privately making and owning a 1911. As long as it's not intended for resale or even given to someone else.

[Diskrete]

From my understanding its legal as long as its for personal use and when making it at that time never intending to sell. If you decide down the line to sell it you need to have the proper markings.

To the op, I understand these projects may look hard, find someone with the right tools and some knowledge to make your project go smoothly. Having done one on cnc and another on a mill and press, its not complicated, get a jig and go slow.

[JoshuaS]

Joshua, where are you getting that information? Everything I've read says there is no legal issues with privately making and owning a 1911. As long as it's not intended for resale or even given to someone else.

Then everything you read is utter BS

Welcome to California

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=31001-32000&file=32000-32030

It is called the Roster of Safe Handguns. And let me tell you, it is nasty.

While private party sales of non-roster guns are allowed, the importation (for the purpose of sale), the selling by a dealer to a non exempt individual, the manufacture of guns not on the roster is illegal


32000. (a) Commencing January 1, 2001, any person in this state who
manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state
for sale, keeps for sale, offers or exposes for sale, gives, or lends
any unsafe handgun shall be punished by imprisonment in a county
jail not exceeding one year.

[Diskrete]

Double tap

[BMXnotFIX]

I think the loophole is in the wording. Manufacturing is creating with intent to distribute. A guy a few years ago emailed the DOJ with the same question about a 1911 and they replied that it was well within the law.

[bill_k_lopez]

I think a lot of you that have posted should spend some time becoming familiar with the search function of this website.

[BMXnotFIX]

Most, if not all, posts concerning the legality of building a handgun a re conflicting do it wouldn't do much good. As for the original question, I haven't seen another thread on it.

[JoshuaS]

Some sites have said (I cannot find support) that "manufacture" there means "manufacture with intent to sell" They claim it always means this. Therefore I can get to work manufacturing my own hi cap mags I suppose....


If I find any hard evidence of that position, I will post it.

In the meantime, may you could build it as a single shot and then undo that? That seems silly...

[BMXnotFIX]

Ya, I'm leery on the legalities of it now and probably won't proceed until I'm 100% sure it's legal, but today is the first time I've ever even heard of it being possibly illegal.

[JoshuaS]

Here are the threads I found

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=21511

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=445378

And the sticky at this subforum

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=86627

"DOJ BoF has opined that private individuals can manufacture non rostered handguns. However, I'm not 100% confident of their legal reasoning so do be careful in that arena." (by hoffmang)


Seems a consensus that it is legal if first made as a single shot, then converted. I found a DOJ letter via internet archive https://web.archive.org/web/20031009...tter_small.jpg


Sorry for derailing the thread here! I had read the PC and assumed, you know, plain language meaning would apply...but this is California.

[CSACANNONEER]

The best way I have heard to do this is to take it to a CNC place that does the 80% milling. They have a 80% build party - when it is your turn you place the piece in the machine and hit the START button - so you made it. The place I was looking at was in San Diego. I don't know of any near Sacramento (where I am at). Woulda been worth a trip down south though.

Your a little late.

I think the loophole is in the wording. Manufacturing is creating with intent to distribute. A guy a few years ago emailed the DOJ with the same question about a 1911 and they replied that it was well within the law.

CA DOJ? If so, what do they have to do with anything?

Ya, I'm leery on the legalities of it now and probably won't proceed until I'm 100% sure it's legal, but today is the first time I've ever even heard of it being possibly illegal.

Good luck finding a 07FFL who isn't going to mark it with their info and legally transfer it back to you. I've got $100 saying that you won't find one ever but, for the sake of a bet, how about one year from your response to this? Oh yea, they'll pass on the manufacturing tax to you too.