80%

[krwada]

Please forgive my ignorance .... I have done a huge ton of reading on 80% lower-anything ... and I am now completely confused.

Just what ... exactly ... is the advantage of completing any 80% lower?

What are the legalities?

Those vendors at the gun shows say something along the lines of anyone can make them, and avoid the law ... I got duped into this by purchasing an 80% M1911 lower ... only to find out, that I need to make one for SSE, get it registered etc etc ....

I looked everywhere on this site ... and get inundated with a ton of opinions ...

So:
1. What is the advantage of purchasing and completing the 80%
2. What are the legal issues?
3. Is there a place where I can get any CLEAR information?

I want information .. not a lot of ... opinions

... OK ... I will hear opinions too.

Thanks!

[cabinetguy]

Please forgive my ignorance .... I have done a huge ton of reading on 80% lower-anything ... and I am now completely confused.

Just what ... exactly ... is the advantage of completing any 80% lower?

What are the legalities?

Those vendors at the gun shows say something along the lines of anyone can make them, and avoid the law ... I got duped into this by purchasing an 80% M1911 lower ... only to find out, that I need to make one for SSE, get it registered etc etc ....

I looked everywhere on this site ... and get inundated with a ton of opinions ...

So:
1. What is the advantage of purchasing and completing the 80%
2. What are the legal issues?
3. Is there a place where I can get any CLEAR information?

I want information .. not a lot of ... opinions

... OK ... I will hear opinions too.

Thanks!

You dont avoid the law making a firearm out of an 80%. If you cant own firearms and you build one, you are breaking the law. If you build an illegal firearm, you are breaking the law. You do not need to register your completed 80% at this time. If you build a pistol, you need to make it a single shot for a moment in time.

This has been hashed over a zillion times here, use the search button or google.

[krwada]

You dont avoid the law making a firearm out of an 80%. If you cant own firearms and you build one, you are breaking the law. If you build an illegal firearm, you are breaking the law. You do not need to register your completed 80% at this time. If you build a pistol, you need to make it a single shot for a moment in time.

This has been hashed over a zillion times here, use the search button or google.

I have googled this at this site.

I see a ton of opinions.

I was hoping someone could point me to a specific thread, or better yet ... a specific wiki...

I have no use for flames. I am new here, and I know that there are a ton of pissed off people here. There is no reason to flame me ... or to patronize me.

[anthonywwalker]

1. What is the advantage of purchasing and completing the 80%
The advantages as I see them are :
(1) Intimate knowledge of your firearm. Nohing will give you the same level of familiarity with a firearm as completing the receiver yourself and assembling each individual component.
(2) Off the books. You completed firearm has no serial number or record of registration or anything of that sort. While this may seem like the sort of thing to appeal to criminals, it also appeals to those who feel as though the government is a bit too intrusive and would like to have a few cards up their sleeves, as it were.

2. What are the legal issues?
The legal issues are the same as buying a completed firearm, sorta. You still have a legal responsibility to adhere to any and all applicable federal, state and local laws ie safe transportation, legally allowed to possess a firearm etc

3. Is there a place where I can get any CLEAR information?
If you're not having much luck searching through the thread or googling, try simply browsing through the various discussions and the stickies. There's loads of good information to be found and while there is the occasional person who gets red-assed about the same old questions, just ignore them and continue to dig through. It may take you longer to find what you're looking for, but you'll learn a lot more along the way.

[krwada]

1. What is the advantage of purchasing and completing the 80%
The advantages as I see them are :
(1) Intimate knowledge of your firearm. Nohing will give you the same level of familiarity with a firearm as completing the receiver yourself and assembling each individual component.
(2) Off the books. You completed firearm has no serial number or record of registration or anything of that sort. While this may seem like the sort of thing to appeal to criminals, it also appeals to those who feel as though the government is a bit too intrusive and would like to have a few cards up their sleeves, as it were.

2. What are the legal issues?
The legal issues are the same as buying a completed firearm, sorta. You still have a legal responsibility to adhere to any and all applicable federal, state and local laws ie safe transportation, legally allowed to possess a firearm etc

3. Is there a place where I can get any CLEAR information?
If you're not having much luck searching through the thread or googling, try simply browsing through the various discussions and the stickies. There's loads of good information to be found and while there is the occasional person who gets red-assed about the same old questions, just ignore them and continue to dig through. It may take you longer to find what you're looking for, but you'll learn a lot more along the way.

This is exactly what I was looking for! Thanks Anthonywwalker!!!

Now, I am feeling a bit more emboldened ... and will continue "wading" through all the threads here.

I just wished there was a summary of sorts ... There are a ton of opinions here.... It is VERY clear to me that the 80% lower OUTSIDE THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA ... is a very attractive thing to do ... inside this state??? Well, all I can say is that I am not so certain as to how attractive a thing it is within this state.

[bill_k_lopez]

This is exactly what I was looking for! Thanks Anthonywwalker!!!

Now, I am feeling a bit more emboldened ... and will continue "wading" through all the threads here.

I just wished there was a summary of sorts ... There are a ton of opinions here.... It is VERY clear to me that the 80% lower OUTSIDE THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA ... is a very attractive thing to do ... inside this state??? Well, all I can say is that I am not so certain as to how attractive a thing it is within this state.

What is there to wade through?

1) buy an 80% lower and a jig. Items are shipped to your address.

2) take your 80% lower and jig
a) to a machine shop that rents time on their:
a1) CNC machine (you most likely will not need a jig)
a2) end mill (you might need your jig)
b) use a drill press (you will need your jig)

3) mill out your 80% lower

4) upon completion of your lower, place it in a locked container (unless already at your final destination, i.e. your garage) and transport to your home.

5) follow the CalGuns flowchart on building your AR15 platform rifle.

Thats it.

Nothing else to wade through.

In THIS state it should be even MORE attractive to do...

[The Paper Pimp]

doing 80% lowers isn't so hot in Arizona.


does anyone else smell a troll in here?

[krwada]

What is there to wade through?

1) buy an 80% lower and a jig. Items are shipped to your address.

2) take your 80% lower and jig
a) to a machine shop that rents time on their:
a1) CNC machine (you most likely will not need a jig)
a2) end mill (you might need your jig)
b) use a drill press (you will need your jig)

3) mill out your 80% lower

4) upon completion of your lower, place it in a locked container (unless already at your final destination, i.e. your garage) and transport to your home.

5) follow the CalGuns flowchart on building your AR15 platform rifle.

Thats it.

Nothing else to wade through.

In THIS state it should be even MORE attractive to do...

I thought I had to register the finished product! Or at least declare the thing to the CA DOJ.

Or does this ONLY need to happen when 01-Jan-2014 rolls around?

All of these CA laws!!!

[krwada]

doing 80% lowers isn't so hot in Arizona.


does anyone else smell a troll in here?

Right now I am debating whether or not it is worth the hassle to do the 80% lower based build here in California ... or to just do the FFL / DROS thing and just purchase a stripped lower.

As of now, it looks like just going through, and giving the gov't of California yet another reason to hassle me may be what I need to endure ...

I was hoping that doing the 80% lower meant I could avoid some of the legal hassle in California

I guess not.

[The Paper Pimp]

i did an 80% and to be honest, wasn't very happy with the outcome. i'm not much into ARs, just have one factory rifle. as others have said, there's a ton of info on here about 80% lowers

[anthonywwalker]

Right now I am debating whether or not it is worth the hassle to do the 80% lower based build here in California ... or to just do the FFL / DROS thing and just purchase a stripped lower.

As of now, it looks like just going through, and giving the gov't of California yet another reason to hassle me may be what I need to endure ...

I was hoping that doing the 80% lower meant I could avoid some of the legal hassle in California

I guess not.

There's really not much legal hassle involved with doing an 80% build, just the standard stuff involved with owning any firearm. If you were thinking that building an 80% would allow you to totally circumvent all federal, state and local laws applicable to firearm ownership, that's not going to be the case. It really boils down to this: Do you want to wait 10 days and have a paper trail of your purchase, or do yo uwant to wait however long it takes yo uto build your firearm and not have a paper trail.

[krwada]

i did an 80% and to be honest, wasn't very happy with the outcome. i'm not much into ARs, just have one factory rifle. as others have said, there's a ton of info on here about 80% lowers

Yeah ... I know there is a ton of info on here. Some of it is pretty good. Some is OK ... but there is a lot of chaff in these threads.

This latest comment of yours ... about not being very happy with the outcome is good info.

If I still have to do all that legal crap with the CA DOJ ... then I am thinking that maybe just purchasing an OLL complete with the 10-day wait, DROS / FFL may be the way to go.

Since AB374 got vetoed ... I am thinking that it may be OK for me to start thinking about purchasing one of these things ... I really like the erector set idea of starting with a stripped lower.

I have lots of patience. I have other firearms, and I reload a ton too. So ... I have lots to keep me busy with the shooting sports.

Like an idiot ... I purchased an 80% M1911 lower at the Vallejo gunshow last weekend. I was lured into just being able to acquire a firearm here in the state of California without having to do all the paper on it. Then I find out.

1. Handgun lowers are a bit of a problem because of that SSE thing
2. The lower I bought is made of aluminum ... I am not so sure this is a good idea with the M1911
3. Dong the finish machining on this thing is NOT trivial
4. Doing the final fitting ... even if I had an off-the-shelf lower ... is NOT trivial
5. I think I still need to register the damn thing!

Well ... I am thinking that I now probably have a $100 fancy paper weight on my hands.

[krwada]

There's really not much legal hassle involved with doing an 80% build, just the standard stuff involved with owning any firearm. If you were thinking that building an 80% would allow you to totally circumvent all federal, state and local laws applicable to firearm ownership, that's not going to be the case. It really boils down to this: Do you want to wait 10 days and have a paper trail of your purchase, or do yo uwant to wait however long it takes yo uto build your firearm and not have a paper trail.

I was not wanting to totally circumvent all federal, state and local laws. I am more interested in not having that paper trail. It looks moot ... soon anyway ... I think the law changes on 01-Jan-2014 ... and all long guns need to be registered ... This really sucks.

[umd]

I was lured into just being able to acquire a firearm here in the state of California without having to do all the paper on it. Then I find out.

You don't have to do any paperwork.

1. Handgun lowers are a bit of a problem because of that SSE thing

Only as far as getting a longer barrel to use and blocking off the magazine.

I think I still need to register the damn thing!

You don't.

I am thinking that I now probably have a $100 fancy paper weight on my hands.

I'll take it off your hands.

I was not wanting to totally circumvent all federal, state and local laws. I am more interested in not having that paper trail. It looks moot ... soon anyway ... I think the law changes on 01-Jan-2014 ... and all long guns need to be registered ... This really sucks.

That only affects transfers.

[krwada]

You don't have to do any paperwork.



Only as far as getting a longer barrel to use and blocking off the magazine.



You don't.



I'll take it off your hands.



That only affects transfers.

Really?

That is good news. Believe me ... I have spent the last 4-5 days reading a ton of comments and threads here, and you quickly answer this!

I guess, there is hope after all for my 80% M1911 frame.

I think the only thing I need to do .... other than working the thing up, is to find a kit to make this thing into an SSE. Then ... make it into a regular M1911 at a later date.

Doing all of this is an incredible hassle.

Maybe I should look into doing the AR 80% first ... That actually looks more like something I probably can handle. I am thinking that the 80% M1911 is way more of an advanced project.

More and more, you fellows are convincing me that getting an 80% lower for an AR may be well worth the trouble.

Thanks!