stuck bullet

[sarge1572]

I have a problem I've not encountered before.

I have in my possession a barrel/receiver with a hot .308 round stuck in the chamber. Here are the particulars:
A portion of the rim is torn off where the extractor failed to pull it out.
The owner took a cleaning rod, and I'm not getting a clear answer on whether there was an implement on the end of the rod, but I'm gathering that there was a cleaning jag or a bore brush.
He drove the rod down so tightly trying to push the bullet out from the muzzle end that he mushroomed the "pounding" end of the rod, and pushed it either into the round or wedged it between the bullet and the barrel so tightly that when he tried to pull the rod out it stripped the threads and pulled just the end of the rod out, leaving the rest of the rod imbedded in the round/trapped in the barrel below the end of the barrel where it can not be reached.
THEN, to make matters worse, a helpful neighbor drove a wooden dowel in through the muzzle end over the end of the cleaning rod and now even that is not exposed.

The weapon:
This is a copy of an HK 91, so the chamber is well forward of the ejection port preventing the introduction of any tool that might be used to "assist" in removal.

I don't have a collet small enough to drop through the receiver and tighten onto the exposed portion of the shell, (like on a drill) and
I don't have the angle to drill a hole in the edge of the shell case so I can fill it with oil, then drill the primer out and use an easy out/screw to pull it out.

Suggestions?

I've not drilled through a live primer before. Is it possible without a high likelihood of detonation?

I've filled the chamber with light oil, but am not optimistic it will wick past the edge of the primer to make it inert.

Remember, this is a live round with known obstructions in the barrel.

I don't have a machine shop.
Is this something where I'd need either a lathe, or mill/drill press to drill the obstructions out from the muzzle end, and press the bullet out? If so I'll have to send it out.

I am an armorer and have been doing weapon repairs and rebuilds successfully for many years. I've just not encountered this particular situation before where just about everything that can go wrong, HAS gone wrong. (I haven't blown anything up yet, including me, so JUST about everything....)

Any suggestions/ideas from bona fide gunsmiths? How would YOU do it? We know you can't send it out!!

[Gunsmith Dan]

Well if this isn't some sort of long comedy skit (when you read it it sounds like one) this is a situation that requires a professional gunsmith.

Yes I know you are armorer for a while but this really requires a professional gunsmith with experience and specialized machines/tools.

I would DEFINATELY NEVER EVER try drilling into a live primer.

I am not sure where you live so I can not recommend a gunsmith to you because with the rifle in that state DO NOT SHIP IT goto the gunsmith in person.

[sarge1572]

Dan,
It's hard to get more bizarre situations than real life!! Just trying to get a feel for this.

I've been an armorer for several years. I work almost exclusively for police departments and have seen some pretty unusual "issues". I don't generally do work for friends/neighbors, but this was brought to me to "look at" by a friend.

I'm located right on the LA / OC border between Whittier and La Habra.

Is this more of a "muzzle end" repair?

[TKM]

Can you drive out the pin and press the barrel out safely?

[Gunsmith Dan]

Without knowning why the live cartridge is stuck in the chamber to the point the rim ripped off I can not say. You can take the barrel out but that will not really help in making it easier to remove.

The way it is described I would say based on my experience someone chambered the wrong type of cartridge with a slightly larger bullet/neck than a .308 Win. into the chamber and manually slamed the bolt closed a few times since the round is live.

If you can see the rim does it look different, larger sticks out more, than a .308 Win rim???

[sarge1572]

TKM,

No. I don't have a press.

Looking more and more like I give it back and send him to a "real" gunsmith.

I was hoping that I was over thinking it and there was a simple solution that eluded me because I was making it too difficult, like drill through the dowel into the cleaning rod and use a "dent puller/slide hammer" to remove the rod and push the bullet out from the muzzle end.

I'll hold out hope a little longer, then, back it goes!!

[sarge1572]

Dan,

That was my initial inclination, that he chambered the wrong round. It's likely it is, but that doesn't make it less stuck. It just makes him look at his shoes a little longer and shuffle his feet. My other thought was/is that he had a shell separation and chambered a round on top of it........ but it should be sticking out of the chamber a little farther unless it separated at the tip of the neck..... hmmmmmmm

Either way, it's still stuck.

[Gunsmith Dan]

Yes but knowing WHY is it stuck can give you a better idea of how to get it out safely.

Well there is one sort of "safe" way of doing it if you can get the barrel out.

First use a oil that is designed to penetrate into small cracks and from the chamber side get it around the edges, then let it soak overnight.


Get a liquid air can while upside down spray the cartridge so it gets really cold, then right after that use a hair dryer to heat up the area where the chamber and barrel meet. You have to make sure you are blowing away from the rear of the chamber so you don't heat the cartridge.

You then, with a pair of pliers, grab the rim and very slowly twist the cartridge and pull on it.

If that doesn't work you really need a gunsmith, which unfortunately I am in San Diego so a bit too far for you.

[zomie]

If it is a fairly air tight seal you could use compressed air to pop it out after letting it soak in penetrating oil?

[sarge1572]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

I have penetrating oil in the chamber now, so that the primer is submerged, for the last 24 hours. It does not appear that the primer is sealed so I'll watch the oil level to see if it goes down any. I can't do anything with it today, so that's another 12/24 hours.

I hadn't thought of cold/hot (see. I was stuck on end mills, and lathes). That is definitely something I've done on other repairs successfully and I have those........

Thanks Dan. I'll see if I have anything that I can reach into the chamber with...

Thanks... It will be a day or two, but I'll post whether or not I was able to accomplish that.

Any additional thought provoking ideas, not just from Dan or TKM, are much appreciated.

Thank you again Dan.

[sarge1572]

Zomie,

I like that as well. I'm reinspecting the flash hider to see if it is removable, or soldered on. Problem is I can only develop 150 PSI.

If for some reason I can't pull a rabbit out of my hat with Dans' suggestion (hot/cold) I will look at yours much closer. I'm fairly confident that even if I can't remove the flash suppressor I can still make an airtight seal...............

Thank you for the idea.............

[sarge1572]

Dan,

oops....... I read too fast.... I don't have the equipment to remove the barrel, but I DO think I can do everything your idea lists going through the magazine well and/or the ejection port.

I'm going to see if I have the equipment to at least try it..........

[sarge1572]

In the meantime I've been reading my Brownells "Gunsmith Kinks" books. (If you have them, book III, page 83).

It's looking more and more like I'm in way over my head!! I'm pretty mechanical, but I'm not a machinist.

[hermosabeach]

For the wood rod...
Could you weld a drywall screw onto a rod

Then screw into the wood rod and pull the rod out?

If this works.... Then you have the cleaning rod wedged in the barrel.

The next question would be are the threads on the cleaning rod entact so you could screw a cleaning rod into the exposed threads to try to pull out the cleaning rod

If the threads are trashed, is there enough opening where you could weld an eazy out onto a rod to try to extract it

Obviously all of these attempts could jack up the bore...

Have a conversation with your friend and verify that the repair effors do not end up costing more than rebarreling the rifle....

[klewan]

I was looking at the Kinks book, suggested to fill barrel with oil, use a fitted wood dowel into the barrel and hit it with a hammer. I would fill to maybe 3" from the muzzle and have the dowel about 6" long. You probably need to make it about an inch or so longer than the flashhider if you can't get that off. Everytime I read about some "pinhead" lusting after a 14.5" barrel and ignoring all the crap that comes with accommodating the ATF, I think of stuff like this situation or wanting to change something on the barrel....