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Homebuilt AK (and other firearms) - Serial Numbers and other issues

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  • hoffmang
    I need a LIFE!!
    • Apr 2006
    • 18448

    Homebuilt AK (and other firearms) - Serial Numbers and other issues

    The question of "do I have to put a serial number" on my home built AK or other firearm has been coming up a lot recently.

    Here is the law as I understand it with support below:

    1. It is not required that you put the build location or a serial number on a firearm that you build at home.

    2. You can not build a firearm at home with the intent to immediately sell it.

    3. Prudence may dictate that you do want to place a serial number on the firearm as LEOs may not understand and think that you have obliterated a serial number which is illegal under both Federal and California law. I recommend your initials and a number - something like Redwood City, CA - GH-0001.

    4. If years later you decide you want to sell your homebuilt rifle to someone else, you can, but it will require that it have a serial number and place of manufacture per Federal law.

    5. Please be careful about the California definition of "zip gun" in PC 12020. Building a firearm that is the same design as a firearm that has been or is being sold commercially is safe but there are large and dangerous grey areas for designs that are not already in commerce. Building an AK, FAL, or AR is not a problem under the zip gun definition however.

    6. DOJ BoF has opined that private individuals can manufacture non rostered handguns. However, I'm not 100% confident of their legal reasoning so do be careful in that arena.

    7. Always be mindful that constructive possession does apply to machine gun parts. Never have a receiver that can accept FA FCGs and generally don't have FA FCG parts around period. Searching the forum will give you more information that at least one Calgunner has gotten into Federal hot water over FA fire control parts.

    For clarification on the serial number issue please refer to this ATF letter:


    Hopefully this clears much of this area up.

    -Gene
    Last edited by hoffmang; 02-12-2008, 9:47 PM. Reason: Spelling
    Gene Hoffman
    Chairman, California Gun Rights Foundation

    DONATE NOW
    to support the rights of California gun owners. Follow @cgfgunrights on Twitter.
    Opinions posted in this account are my own and not the approved position of any organization.
    I read PMs. But, if you need a response, include an email address or email me directly!


    "The problem with being a gun rights supporter is that the left hates guns and the right hates rights." -Anon
  • #2
    pbrand
    Senior Member
    • Oct 2007
    • 914

    Great write up, thanks for the information!

    Comment

    • #3
      hoffmang
      I need a LIFE!!
      • Apr 2006
      • 18448

      To clarify my point 7 above a bit, everyone should read through this thread: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ad.php?t=84417

      -Gene
      Gene Hoffman
      Chairman, California Gun Rights Foundation

      DONATE NOW
      to support the rights of California gun owners. Follow @cgfgunrights on Twitter.
      Opinions posted in this account are my own and not the approved position of any organization.
      I read PMs. But, if you need a response, include an email address or email me directly!


      "The problem with being a gun rights supporter is that the left hates guns and the right hates rights." -Anon

      Comment

      • #4
        RossRinSD
        Senior Member
        • Jan 2007
        • 2371

        that answers some questions for me...

        The AK parts kits don't come with a FA fire group do they??

        I was working on that 922r checklist
        The combination of The Gun Wiki to our system is not only in line with what we are working on, but will also serve as a means in which to build upon our ongoing projects.


        I was going to use my current FCG to save a few bucks since I need a US made magazine and furniture. I just assumed they were SA...

        Comment

        • #5
          hoffmang
          I need a LIFE!!
          • Apr 2006
          • 18448

          Ross,

          We posted at the same time so you may want to review my post above yours.

          -Gene
          Gene Hoffman
          Chairman, California Gun Rights Foundation

          DONATE NOW
          to support the rights of California gun owners. Follow @cgfgunrights on Twitter.
          Opinions posted in this account are my own and not the approved position of any organization.
          I read PMs. But, if you need a response, include an email address or email me directly!


          "The problem with being a gun rights supporter is that the left hates guns and the right hates rights." -Anon

          Comment

          • #6
            ptoguy2002
            Veteran Member
            • Jul 2006
            • 3863

            Thanks Gene.
            Wow, you are right, a "zip gun" has a very broad definition
            It pretty much covers just about everything.
            WTB: SWISS & German police trade in pistols
            WTB: German made & proofed SIG P226R & P228R
            WTB: Factory cutaway pistols & rifles
            WTB: LAPD Ithaca M37 / CHP S&W / Other PD trade ins....

            Comment

            • #7
              redneckshootist
              In Memoriam
              • Mar 2006
              • 1928

              Originally posted by RossRinSD
              that answers some questions for me...

              The AK parts kits don't come with a FA fire group do they??

              I was working on that 922r checklist
              The combination of The Gun Wiki to our system is not only in line with what we are working on, but will also serve as a means in which to build upon our ongoing projects.


              I was going to use my current FCG to save a few bucks since I need a US made magazine and furniture. I just assumed they were SA...
              ross I purchaced three kits all from gunbroker, didnt buy them from any big vendors. all three kits came with the full auto parts. as soon as I saw them I cut them up with a torch. I think it depends on who you buy it from some do some dont.
              07 FFL Woodland, CA
              please call Norse Armory 530-661-0900 for all questions regarding the gun shop.
              you can also email me direct at MValentine@norsearmory.net

              Comment

              • #8
                adamsreeftank
                Senior Member
                • Jan 2006
                • 2244

                If you recommend a serial number and a location, what about a manufacutrer name. IE GH-Arms. Would that be neccessary or helpful?

                Comment

                • #9
                  hoffmang
                  I need a LIFE!!
                  • Apr 2006
                  • 18448

                  Looking more closely at 27 CFR 478.92 you need to place your name, caliber, serial number and manufacturing location on any firearm you wish to be able to sell. A model designation appears optional.

                  -Gene
                  Gene Hoffman
                  Chairman, California Gun Rights Foundation

                  DONATE NOW
                  to support the rights of California gun owners. Follow @cgfgunrights on Twitter.
                  Opinions posted in this account are my own and not the approved position of any organization.
                  I read PMs. But, if you need a response, include an email address or email me directly!


                  "The problem with being a gun rights supporter is that the left hates guns and the right hates rights." -Anon

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    oaklander
                    Banned
                    • May 2006
                    • 11095

                    Thanks for the post, Gene!



                    Good info - especially for the flat-benders out there!

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      m24armorer
                      In Memoriam
                      • Feb 2006
                      • 1422

                      478.92 is for 07 FFL's.

                      I do recommend for home builds:
                      Caliber: Whatever it is.
                      Make: HB and your last name.
                      Model: Your choice.
                      And some serial number. Do not use your DL or SSN.
                      Last edited by m24armorer; 02-12-2008, 11:11 PM.
                      07 Class II in the Bay area.
                      Enjoy the silence.......
                      sigpic
                      Celebrating our madness for over
                      50 years.


                      Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier. One died for your soul; the other for your freedom.
                      - George Patton

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        hoffmang
                        I need a LIFE!!
                        • Apr 2006
                        • 18448

                        The ATF letter I posted above refers to 478.92 for the marking requirements necessary for later transfer of a homebuilt firearm.

                        -Gene
                        Gene Hoffman
                        Chairman, California Gun Rights Foundation

                        DONATE NOW
                        to support the rights of California gun owners. Follow @cgfgunrights on Twitter.
                        Opinions posted in this account are my own and not the approved position of any organization.
                        I read PMs. But, if you need a response, include an email address or email me directly!


                        "The problem with being a gun rights supporter is that the left hates guns and the right hates rights." -Anon

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          m24armorer
                          In Memoriam
                          • Feb 2006
                          • 1422

                          07 Class II in the Bay area.
                          Enjoy the silence.......
                          sigpic
                          Celebrating our madness for over
                          50 years.


                          Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier. One died for your soul; the other for your freedom.
                          - George Patton

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            m24armorer
                            In Memoriam
                            • Feb 2006
                            • 1422

                            Gene,not butting heads with you....
                            07 Class II in the Bay area.
                            Enjoy the silence.......
                            sigpic
                            Celebrating our madness for over
                            50 years.


                            Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier. One died for your soul; the other for your freedom.
                            - George Patton

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              m24armorer
                              In Memoriam
                              • Feb 2006
                              • 1422

                              Gee, butter my buns and call me a biscuit! My un messed with ATF regs book confirms what you speak. And then it gets smoke and mirrors.

                              my bad......
                              07 Class II in the Bay area.
                              Enjoy the silence.......
                              sigpic
                              Celebrating our madness for over
                              50 years.


                              Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier. One died for your soul; the other for your freedom.
                              - George Patton

                              Comment

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