Such a good priceeeeee!

[nightwolf0215]

Someone grab this before I do! AKS for 800 bucks. So damn cheap!

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=307321002

[arga]

Even $1600 isn't unreasonable for one w/ a barrel.

[yari]

Man!!! You had me going with that 800. Buy it now is double that.

[nightwolf0215]

69Mach1 is selling aks kit for 850. and hes local!!! But that kit has been on there for sooooo long. That it will sell for the minimum im hoping.

[kcstott]

Ok educate me? Why are they so damn expensive other then collector value.
Yeah a Krink is a bad arse rifle but I don't see the value

[Plisk]

Ok educate me? Why are they so damn expensive other then collector value.
Yeah a Krink is a bad arse rifle but I don't see the value

The barrel is the value. Post 2005 kits can't come in with barrels anymore.

[kcstott]

I would again assume that it's a collector thing since barrels are not hard to come by in this country and for the money they are asking you could get a Krieger custom made barrel and still have money left over.

My sticking point is these things should have no other value then supply and demand because all collector value went out the window with the original receiver. No matter how you look at it this rifle will either have a NDS receiver or a garage built flat. And to me that kills all collector value. It's still a damn good rifle with very nice parts but I don't see any value beyond that.

[Plisk]

I would again assume that it's a collector thing since barrels are not hard to come by in this country and for the money they are asking you could get a Krieger custom made barrel and still have money left over.

My sticking point is these things should have no other value then supply and demand because all collector value went out the window with the original receiver. No matter how you look at it this rifle will either have a NDS receiver or a garage built flat. And to me that kills all collector value. It's still a damn good rifle with very nice parts but I don't see any value beyond that.

The original barrels are desirable because the steels that the European manufacturers used are much better then most of the barrel steel we have access to here in the states. Also being in as close to original military issue condition, as far as who manufactured it is a plus point for AK guys. Whether its collector value or parts value depends on the buyer.

[yari]

^ Can you explain how the euro steel is better than US steel? I understand it's nice to have a orig. barrel, but I would have a hard time saying theirs is better than ours. I believe that is all hype.

[Plisk]

^ Can you explain how the euro steel is better than US steel? I understand it's nice to have a orig. barrel, but I would have a hard time saying theirs is better than ours. I believe that is all hype.

Most Euro steel, specifically the kind found in barrels are a much harder grade of steel then most of the barrel steel we use here. I didn't say that all Euro steel is better.

[yari]

What type of steel do they use? Do they heat treat to a harder Rockwell hardness? I mean what's so much better? We've been building barrels for what a couple hundred years? Hard to imagine a country that has more weapons mfg. Experience than the US. Just saying.

[Plisk]

What type of steel do they use? Do they heat treat to a harder Rockwell hardness? I mean what's so much better? We've been building barrels for what a couple hundred years? Hard to imagine a country that has more weapons mfg. Experience than the US. Just saying.

It's still just carbon steel, it's just a better grade of steel. The hardness isn't just from the tempering of the metal it's also the metals quality itself.

Sure the US has been building barrels for a while, but we've also outsourced just about everything in this country, steel industry included. Just because we've been doing something a long time, doesn't mean we're the best at it. Firearms have existed longer then the United States have, so there are counties who have been making weapons longer then we've existed. You also need to remember that Europe has existed for a very very long time and has been using metallurgy for about as long. Back in the day making swords and cannons they have a longer history of metal manufacturing and processing.

Take into account some of the history behind industrial manufacturing. We are not the best at a lot of things anymore. And again, I go back to the fact that I said that I didn't say that Imported steel/barrels are the best. I said they are usually better then most. MOST, not all. Look at Sig Sauer, commonly known has a very accurate pistol. Then take saw Bar-sto barrels. They outperform those imported barrels, US steel with US manufacturing. Specialty manufacturing we still do very well in some cases. But take a more general manufacturer, look at Remington and compare it to Sako. The Finnish barrel out perform those. Now look at a Obermyer or Kreiger made barrel. They typically just out-edge Sako barrels.

[wash]

Uh, what country are we talking about?

Germany had Krupp steel that they made cannon barrels out of but that's probably been reverse engineered, duplicated and improved upon (by the US) since WWII and I bet AK plants weren't using Krupp steel for their barrels.

AK barrels were hammer forged but that is because it's cheaper to hammer forge instead of cut rifle or button rifle once you get to the kind of production scale an AK plant had.

AKs are mostly crude bullet hoses, that is why ARs seem so much more accurate by comparison. Most US made AK barrels are $70 cheapos, and they do pretty well if the bore and rifling twist are appropriate. If they have a good chamber and get a nitride treatment that's probably superior to any eastern bloc AK barrel ever made.

[kcstott]

Uh, what country are we talking about?

Germany had Krupp steel that they made cannon barrels out of but that's probably been reverse engineered, duplicated and improved upon (by the US) since WWII and I bet AK plants weren't using Krupp steel for their barrels.

AK barrels were hammer forged but that is because it's cheaper to hammer forge instead of cut rifle or button rifle once you get to the kind of production scale an AK plant had.

AKs are mostly crude bullet hoses, that is why ARs seem so much more accurate by comparison. Most US made AK barrels are $70 cheapos, and they do pretty well if the bore and rifling twist are appropriate. If they have a good chamber and get a nitride treatment that's probably superior to any eastern bloc AK barrel ever made.

I have to agree Wash. The BArrel quality of any AK barrel sucks over all. and by over all I mean all production barrels. not just AK's

Now to knit pick. Hammer forged is the worst for quality control, single point cut rifling being the top of quality control, and button rifled in between but closer to hammer forged then cut rifling.

Harder is not better as far as barrel steels go. Some of the best barrels in the world are made from 416R and believe it or not 316 which can not be heat treated. The 316 barrels are only made in certain calibers and contours as the steel is not as strong in yield strength.
Now as far as Sako goes I'd put a 40X up against anything Sako builds and an out of the box comparison the 40X will kick it's arse hands down And I hate Remington's but you have to respect a 40X.

So answer me this. If the barrel was sold off on it's own what would it be worth knowing it's heritage?? $200? $300? $400?? Because in any of those price ranges we have barrel makers in the country that will make anything you want.
Now if you are looking at under $200 and comparing to a $70 POS barrel sure the imports are better but lets compare these in the same class of price an quality.

It still blows my mind how cheep AK barrels are. $120 and under ready to install. You can't touch that with even the cheapest us made barrel made for a bolt rifle.

[yari]

I'm not alone.