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NDS3 Failure to Eject Issues

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  • Flat Broke
    Member
    • Mar 2008
    • 435

    NDS3 Failure to Eject Issues

    I tried reviving another thread from AM9000 in the centerfire rifles section with this question, but I think I'll just start a new thread since I've pretty much narrowed down the problem and need some insight from the pros.

    The rifle is an NDS3 built with older Saiga parts. I had the setup out at the range a couple months ago, had some problems, and I was too busy with life to sort it out. The wife is away for a week, so I had some spare time to pull the rifle out, get some pics etc. and try and figure out the problem. The rifle will usually fail to eject about 2 out of every 10 rounds in regular steel surplus mags as well as circle 10s. It's not always the same rounds in the progression of the magazine, but I didn't get through a single trouble free mag. The spent cases would get jammed inside the rifle and preclude the firing of the next round, or interfere with the chambering of said round. It also seems like the cases that do make it out don't get kicked as hard as I've seen from other AKs/Saigas.

    Before I take any drastic measures, I wanted to fly some pics by you guys to verify the bolt/ejector distance is indeed the likely culprit.

    The first two pics of the bolt face and the ejector are taken with my finger pushing the bolt away from the ejector. In the last two pics showing the ejector in relation to the underside of the bolt, the first picture is with finger pressure pushing the bolt away, and the last pic is the bolt resting against normal spring pressure without being pushed.

    I checked the gas port and it is clear of obstruction/clean, I'm not running a buffer or anything like that, so I'm thinking it's gotta be the ejector. When searching outside Calguns (the search feature isn't the best here,as I typically have to use google or boardreader to find threads I remmeber reading on here) I found a couple instances of people having similar problems with NDS3 builds.


    http://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.p...;topic=56710.0 (can someone show me a pic of this dimple on an NDS 1, so I could try replicating it)

    Many moons ago when I bought the NDS3, I emailed Harlan about using a Saiga parts kit, and got a GTG from him on it; so the later post in the last link that discusses the different Saiga bolt kinda sucked to read.

    Anyhow, can I get a sanity check on my ejector to bolt distance? Assuming that it needs to be welded, anyone in So Cal wanna earn a few bucks? If anyone knows more about that dimple that was mentioned in the second link, I'd be open to replicating that and seeing if it corrects the problem.

    In the other thread covering a similar issue, one Calgunner recommended to "squeeze" receiver to move the ejector closer to the bolt path, is this something that is going to be visually noticeable? and is it permanent, or will I ocaisionally have to re-squeeze things? I want this fixed right as I have no room in my safe for guns that have question marks over their reliability.

    Thanks,
    Chris
    Attached Files
    "We will always remember. We will always be proud. We will always be prepared, so we may always be free." - Ronald Reagan, June 6th 1984
  • #2
    SJgunguy24
    I need a LIFE!!
    • May 2008
    • 14849

    I'll pull a couple of bolts out and double check but the Saiga uses AK 74 stlye bolts. IIRC they are narrower then a Military style 47 bolt that the NDS3 is normally use with which could explain the irregularity of the FTE.

    I wouldn't squeeze, I'd add a bit of metal by welding
    There are 3 kinds of people in this world.
    The wise, learn from the mistakes of others.
    The smart, learn from their own mistakes.
    The others, well......they just never learn.

    "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, Give Me Liberty, Or Give Me Death!"
    Patrick Henry.

    Comment

    • #3
      SJgunguy24
      I need a LIFE!!
      • May 2008
      • 14849

      I don't have an NDS3 but my NDS1 build will let the Saiga 762 bolt and carrier ride on through.
      The AKM bolt and carrier gets stopped by the ejector in the Saiga receiver. So the Saiga receiver's ejector sitcks out more then NDS1 and I would think it would be the same with the NDS3
      There are 3 kinds of people in this world.
      The wise, learn from the mistakes of others.
      The smart, learn from their own mistakes.
      The others, well......they just never learn.

      "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, Give Me Liberty, Or Give Me Death!"
      Patrick Henry.

      Comment

      • #4
        Flat Broke
        Member
        • Mar 2008
        • 435

        Greeeaaaat So I'm guessing that I need to find someone with a TIG to add some meat to the ejector. I have a small Lincoln 110v setup but I'm out of gas (never use the damn thing because of the duty cycle being so short) so I'd have to run flux core wire, but would that work? Out of curiosity, would a 47 bolt lock up in a 74/Saiga trunion? If so, I guess I could roll the dice on getting a bolt and hope it will headspace in my setup.

        Thanks for taking the time to fit parts around in your stuff and get me such a quick answer.

        Chris
        "We will always remember. We will always be proud. We will always be prepared, so we may always be free." - Ronald Reagan, June 6th 1984

        Comment

        • #5
          Flat Broke
          Member
          • Mar 2008
          • 435

          I almost forgot to ask, could you make sense out of the mention of the "dimple" the guy in the first link I posted was talking about on an NDS1? It probably wouldn't solve my problems, but now I'm curious to see what he was talking about.

          Thanks,
          Chris
          "We will always remember. We will always be proud. We will always be prepared, so we may always be free." - Ronald Reagan, June 6th 1984

          Comment

          • #6
            HotRails
            Senior Member
            • May 2008
            • 1491

            The extractor definately looks different than the typical Romy kit. Just for kicks dissassemble the bolt and check to make sure there isn't a great deal of rust accumulated behind the extractor. Its just that some guys who don't properly heat treat and get ejector tips worn way down haven't had FTE issues. Wish you well on this one.
            Last edited by HotRails; 08-03-2010, 10:59 PM.

            Comment

            • #7
              SJgunguy24
              I need a LIFE!!
              • May 2008
              • 14849

              Originally posted by Flat Broke
              Greeeaaaat So I'm guessing that I need to find someone with a TIG to add some meat to the ejector. I have a small Lincoln 110v setup but I'm out of gas (never use the damn thing because of the duty cycle being so short) so I'd have to run flux core wire, but would that work? Out of curiosity, would a 47 bolt lock up in a 74/Saiga trunion? If so, I guess I could roll the dice on getting a bolt and hope it will headspace in my setup.

              Thanks for taking the time to fit parts around in your stuff and get me such a quick answer.

              Chris
              Nope, neither bolt will lock up or even turn. I would MIG the ejector, if you have er70s6 you can run CO2, it'll be cleaner then the fluxcore but not as clean as 25/75.
              There are 3 kinds of people in this world.
              The wise, learn from the mistakes of others.
              The smart, learn from their own mistakes.
              The others, well......they just never learn.

              "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, Give Me Liberty, Or Give Me Death!"
              Patrick Henry.

              Comment

              • #8
                Flat Broke
                Member
                • Mar 2008
                • 435

                Asside from a light coat of carbon, the bolt is clean, I actually had it appart earlier today thinking the same thing. Thanks for the idea though. With regard to the statement about heat treat, are you saying that I'm GTG with a flux core wire, so long as I re-heat treat the ejector after the fact?

                Thanks,
                Chris
                "We will always remember. We will always be proud. We will always be prepared, so we may always be free." - Ronald Reagan, June 6th 1984

                Comment

                • #9
                  SJgunguy24
                  I need a LIFE!!
                  • May 2008
                  • 14849

                  Originally posted by Flat Broke
                  Asside from a light coat of carbon, the bolt is clean, I actually had it appart earlier today thinking the same thing. Thanks for the idea though. With regard to the statement about heat treat, are you saying that I'm GTG with a flux core wire, so long as I re-heat treat the ejector after the fact?

                  Thanks,
                  Chris
                  Welding will heat treat the ejector.
                  There are 3 kinds of people in this world.
                  The wise, learn from the mistakes of others.
                  The smart, learn from their own mistakes.
                  The others, well......they just never learn.

                  "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, Give Me Liberty, Or Give Me Death!"
                  Patrick Henry.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    jamesob
                    Veteran Member
                    • Jan 2008
                    • 4821

                    ejector looks ok to me, i would check your extractor

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Flat Broke
                      Member
                      • Mar 2008
                      • 435

                      Originally posted by jamesob
                      ejector looks ok to me, i would check your extractor
                      The shape of it, or its proximity to the bolt? I think it's shaped fine, but I'm questioning its distance from the bolt. Based upon SJgunguy24's quick test with Saiga and AK bolts and ejector lengths, it would appear that my NDS3's ejector doesn't protrude far enough out even thought the shape is right.

                      As far as checking the extractor, I disassembled the bolt earlier today and there isn't any gunk or anything that would be causing the extractor not to release. Is there something specfic I should be looking for?

                      Thanks,
                      Chris
                      "We will always remember. We will always be proud. We will always be prepared, so we may always be free." - Ronald Reagan, June 6th 1984

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Flat Broke
                        Member
                        • Mar 2008
                        • 435

                        Originally posted by SJgunguy24
                        Nope, neither bolt will lock up or even turn. I would MIG the ejector, if you have er70s6 you can run CO2, it'll be cleaner then the fluxcore but not as clean as 25/75.
                        I'll have to deal with the mess of flux core for this deal. I'm going to have to grind and shape anyhow, so a little extra cleanup is easier than getting a bottle filled.

                        Thanks for all the input,
                        Chris
                        "We will always remember. We will always be proud. We will always be prepared, so we may always be free." - Ronald Reagan, June 6th 1984

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          SJgunguy24
                          I need a LIFE!!
                          • May 2008
                          • 14849

                          Originally posted by Flat Broke
                          I'll have to deal with the mess of flux core for this deal. I'm going to have to grind and shape anyhow, so a little extra cleanup is easier than getting a bottle filled.

                          Thanks for all the input,
                          Chris
                          CO2 paintball tank is easy and cheap.
                          There are 3 kinds of people in this world.
                          The wise, learn from the mistakes of others.
                          The smart, learn from their own mistakes.
                          The others, well......they just never learn.

                          "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, Give Me Liberty, Or Give Me Death!"
                          Patrick Henry.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            jamesob
                            Veteran Member
                            • Jan 2008
                            • 4821

                            will it spit the shell out if you pull the bolt back by hand?

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Flat Broke
                              Member
                              • Mar 2008
                              • 435

                              Originally posted by jamesob
                              will it spit the shell out if you pull the bolt back by hand?
                              I hand cycled the rifle with a spent case 10 times with the rifle in a horrizontal/shooting position. 7 times the case kicked out okay, albiet not very far, and 3 times it didn't clear the ejection port.

                              To me it seems like the bolt has too much room to get past the ejector sometimes and it probably just depends on the side to side movement of the carrier in the receiver.

                              I'll weld up the ejector, re-dress it and see what happens next time I'm out at the range.

                              Chris
                              "We will always remember. We will always be proud. We will always be prepared, so we may always be free." - Ronald Reagan, June 6th 1984

                              Comment

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