Gunsmith vs. "Armorer"

[GunDog]

Anyone care to explain the difference between a gunsmith and an armorer.

Think I know what a trained gunsmith is capable of doing. Know that generally a gunsmith has a background/training as a machinist or tool maker with extensive and varied gunsmithing experience.

What intrigues me though, is oftentimes I see gun enthusiasts who post on CALGUNS and elsewhere who like to describe themselves as a Colt or Glock "Armorer."

I've heard many instances of where a self-described armorer has buggered up someone's firearm. Oftentimes gun-tinkerers with inflated egos like to call themselves armorers even though they have no formal training. Sometimes these "armorers" will take on a job and end up "in over their heads."

Your comments........

[Jason_2111]

An armorer is more of a parts "replace-man". We're also good at identifying problems, ordering and installing parts, tuning up bad or damaged parts with the tools of the trade... rawhide mallet and honing stones. An armorer is usually intimately familiar with a range of firearms, but not as many as a gunsmith.
Yeah, there are some guys that will watch a few videos and call themselves an armorer while in all actuality are just gun enthusiasts that like to take apart their gear.
In the military, and armorer is also in charge of maintaining custody of weapons, performing preventative maintenance, and inspecting/repairing weapons.
Things and armorer doesn't do (or at least, things I didn't do as a Marine Corps armorer of 8 years):
- fabricate parts,
- do anything that required use of a lathe or mill (apply checkering to stocks, cut dovetails in slides for custom sights, etc),
- Apply any sort of custom finish like hard chroming or parkerizing shiny metal parts
- heat treating or cold tempering parts

You can see the difference.

IMHO, any armorer should have all of the specialized tools for any particular weapons they claim to work on... thinks like that bench block you use on an AR to hold the gas block when you knock out the pins. Also, an armorer should have any needed gauges... like for headspace checks or bore straightness/erosion checks.

Some guys do get in over their heads though. Me personally... I fix all my own stuff, unless I know it requires a special tool that I don't have, or is beyond the scope of my abilities... then I take it in to the shop.

Training is another big difference.
In the Marine Corps, armorer school is 6 months long, and you learn about 20 or so weapons. Gunsmith (2112) school is over a year long, and you learn just sniper rifles.

[Toten Kopf]

Most armorers are limited to what is allowed in technical manuals, no custom or modification work.

If the manual doesn't list it, they shouldn't do it.

A gunsmith is not limited to manual listed work. They can do as much custom/modification work as their skills allow (for the most part).

[winnre]

My unit "armorer" didn't know why the magazine would not fit in the M'4s hollow pistol grip...

[Timberwolf]

My unit "armorer" didn't know why the magazine would not fit in the M'4s hollow pistol grip...

Faceplant into palms of hands

[kendog4570]

My unit "armorer" didn't know why the magazine would not fit in the M'4s hollow pistol grip...

He was probably putting it in backwards!

[9mmepiphany]

my definition is sort of old fashioned, but so are the gun smiths i know.

an armourer maintains guns. they can replace and refit parts. they know correct fitting procedures and common causes of malfunctions

a gunsmith can build a gun...all the parts from a block of steel.

a favorite answer i've heard was someone admiring a grip safety treatment on a 1911 and asking, "how do you do that?" the answer was, "you weld on a piece of metal and just remove anything that doesn't look the way you want". that's why i admire the old 1911 smiths from the 60s and 70s...they didn't have aftermarket parts to install, they made them from an idea in their head

[GunDog]

An interesting discussion so far. Thanks to all for your inputs.

[Once A Marine]

My unit "armorer" didn't know why the magazine would not fit in the M'4s hollow pistol grip...

Was he an armorer by MOS, or was he a weapons custodian?

[m24armorer]

Gee, not sure what I am. And after 45 years of this stuff, I'm still not sure.

BTW my MOS was 2112RTE

[CRTguns]

M24gunsmith

[ar15barrels]

Armorers are usually parts swappers.
Gunsmiths are machinists that happen to work on guns.

[kendog4570]

From Websters:


Main Entry:

[9mmepiphany]

Looks like "armorers" were on the scene first.

they were...armor for knights pre-dated firearms; armorers were originally blacksmiths

[LexLuther]

Good question, good answers, Thanks !