Ejector Fitting Problems

[rplaw]

I'm working on replacing my troublesome ejector on my .45 Kimber Pro with the new one I just got from Midway / Wilson.

Houston, I think we have a problem.



There's a gap between the frame and the ejector at the rear foot/post. The front is down tight, but the rear is still not seated on the frame. I checked the frame with a straight edge and it seems flat...

Except...



You can see there's a depression in the frame where the front of the other ejector sat. I'm assuming that the wobble in it wore the frame down.

Here's another shot with a pointer to show what I'm talking about.



The base of the new ejector goes all the way forward to the edge of the magwell so it's not sitting in the low area thereby causing the rear of the ejector to lift. It's down tight in front but lifted in the rear.

Do I have a bad ejector or is there some other issue I'm overlooking?

[rplaw]

Oh, and it's an extended ejector so I'll be trimming the nose to the same length as the old one. (Which I also had to do when I fitted it after the original MIM part snapped the front foot off.)

It's also too fat and too tall.

Why can't mfg's make parts that actually do what they say and drop in?

On top of that, my roll pin is toast too. It's bent and crushed right at the point where it locks the foot of the ejector post. I noticed it after I swapped in a replacement factory MIM part, but thought it'd be ok.

It's not.

[Sailormilan2]

[rplaw]

It's a .45acp commander. The ejector is for a 9mm / .38 super. I can do the ejector to slide fitting but the lifted rear post isn't something I can correct.

The hole for the rear leg is clean and deeper than the leg length. It's almost deep enough for the front leg to go into. Twisting the ejector off to the side, I can seat the rear of the ejector all the way down to the frame deck without interference so it should fully seat in the normal position unless there's something else going on.

This whole thing has got me wondering if the front hole is drilled on an angle from the factory and that's what's caused the original problem and why the replacement parts aren't working correctly either.

[pacrat]

The issue with MOST drop in parts. Is that they aren't. MOST require at least SOME fitting.

Check diameter of rear post compared to its hole. It MAY be a bit fat.

Turn ejector sideways, with front, to the left. And see if the rear post, fits its hole.

OR, spacing of pins MAY be off a bit. Is the rear pin binding frnt/back in the hole?

ETA ...... struck sentences were addressed while I was slow thumb typing.

[ar15barrels]

If the rear leg will not fit flush while checking ONLY the rear leg into the frame, then there might be a radius between the post and the flat underside of the ejector that you need to account for in the frame by chamfering the frame hole.

If the rear leg will fit flush when ONLY the rear leg is installed, then you will probably need to cross pin it like the front leg to keep it down.
Make sure you have it clamped into the frame while drilling the cross-pin hole.

[ar15barrels]

This whole thing has got me wondering if the front hole is drilled on an angle from the factory and that's what's caused the original problem and why the replacement parts aren't working correctly either.

This seems quite possible.
Grab drill bits that fits precisely into each hole and flip the drill bit backwards and drop it into the front hole and see if the drill bit is standing up square to the top surface of the frame.

If the front hole is indeed crooked, you could file fit the angle on to the new extractor's front post until the extractor sits right and then pin the rear leg down into the frame to hold it in the right spot.

[rplaw]

The issue with MOST drop in parts. Is that they aren't. MOST require at least SOME fitting.

Check diameter of rear post compared to its hole. It MAY be a bit fat.

Turn ejector sideways, with front, to the left. And see if the rear post, fits its hole.

OR, spacing of pins MAY be off a bit. Is the rear pin binding frnt/back in the hole?

ETA ...... struck sentences were addressed while I was slow thumb typing.

.693" outside spacing on the ejector. I checked at both the base of the ejector and at the tip of the rear leg, same measurement so the legs are parallel.





.693" outside measurement for the frame holes.



It's a tight fit, I have to tap it down into place. When the front is seated there's no "spring" in the ejector. I can't push it down any further.



(friggin cat, hair everywhere!!!)

[rplaw]

This seems quite possible.
Grab drill bits that fits precisely into each hole and flip the drill bit backwards and drop it into the front hole and see if the drill bit is standing up square to the top surface of the frame.

If the front hole is indeed crooked, you could file fit the angle on to the new extractor's front post until the extractor sits right and then pin the rear leg down into the frame to hold it in the right spot.

I'll have to get a numbered drill to do this. I don't have anything on hand right now but I know a guy... If the holes aren't sized to a corresponding bit, I can also machine a tight fitting dowel on a lathe. Lucky me, the same guy I know who has the numbered drill bits also has a lathe I can use.

Cross drilling the frame for a rear pin seems a little extreme. What's your thought on using locktite instead?

If the Locktite idea won't work, then would it be better to cross drill in front or behind the post?

[ar15barrels]

I'll have to get a numbered drill to do this. I don't have anything on hand right now but I know a guy... If the holes aren't sized to a corresponding bit, I can also machine a tight fitting dowel on a lathe. Lucky me, the same guy I know who has the numbered drill bits also has a lathe I can use.

Cross drilling the frame for a rear pin seems a little extreme. What's your thought on using locktite instead?

If the Locktite idea won't work, then would it be better to cross drill in front or behind the post?

If you find out that the hole is crooked, I would make the hole oversized and then fit a soft plug into the hole and drill a new hole.
Don't use a dowel pin because it will be too hard to drill a new hole.
You also need the plug to be oversized so that drilling the new hole will not remove so much of the plug that it causes the plug to break free and spin while you are drilling it.

Drilling for a 2nd pin is better than loctite but you need to look closely at the frame to determine if it's better do drill in front or in back.

[rplaw]

If you find out that the hole is crooked, I would make the hole oversized and then fit a soft plug into the hole and drill a new hole.

If it comes to this, someone is going to get a machining job. My skills would let me drill over size and tap for a threaded plug with a correctly sized hole in it, but I don't know if I can get within the spacing tolerance and/or square to the deck. This is well beyond my gunsmithing and machining skills and I'm not afraid to admit it.

Don't use a dowel pin because it will be too hard to drill a new hole.

The dowel would be for checking that the hole is square to the deck. That's all. I have a decent set of machinist squares, I'd just need something to insert into the hole to check that it's square to the deck. That's either a numbered drill bit or a specially machined dowel rod which fit the hole tightly.

You also need the plug to be oversized so that drilling the new hole will not remove so much of the plug that it causes the plug to break free and spin while you are drilling it.

Like I said, if it comes down to that, it'll go to someone with the machinery and skills necessary to make it right. I don't have those skills or machines.

Drilling for a 2nd pin is better than loctite but you need to look closely at the frame to determine if it's better do drill in front or in back.

Got it. Another issue is whether the post is tall enough to make this work. I don't think it is, but I'll look at it to see what can be done. I also might not be able to do this myself because I think the cross pin hole will end up being half on the frame rail and half in the cut below the rail.

What about using a grub screw instead of a cross-pin?

[ar15barrels]

The dowel would be for checking that the hole is square to the deck. That's all. I have a decent set of machinist squares, I'd just need something to insert into the hole to check that it's square to the deck. That's either a numbered drill bit or a specially machined dowel rod which fit the hole tightly.

Use a gauge pin to visualize the angle of the hole.
No need to make a pin as they come in boxes of 250, already nicely ground to 0.001" steps!
Hopefully your friend with the lathe has a set.
You should be able to SEE the angle just like you can see the angle of the ejector.

Another issue is whether the post is tall enough to make this work. I don't think it is, but I'll look at it to see what can be done. I also might not be able to do this myself because I think the cross pin hole will end up being half on the frame rail and half in the cut below the rail

Put the pin in the center of the rail instead of trying to fit it below the rail.
Rail height is around 0.120" while you only need a 0.062" hole for a 1/16" roll pin like the front leg uses.
You also only need a 1/4" long roll pin as it will only need to go through the LEFT rail since it has to stop before it sticks out into the space used by the hammer.
By luck, an AR-15 A1 rear sight roll pin is 1/16" x 1/4".

What about using a grub screw instead of a cross-pin?

A setscrew needs MORE room than a 1/16" roll pin does and does not hold as well.

[rplaw]

Checked it with a drill bit that fit the hole tightly.

It's not square to the deck of the frame.

I checked it from both directions (frt and rear) and it shows the same lean forward. I spun the drill bit and rechecked it 3 times. Same, same, same.

It's not square. It's hard (maybe impossible) to see in the picture, but the gap starts at the base and gets wider going up the shank before you get to the drill flutes. I didn't measure it because whatever the angle is, it's not square and it should be.



I can always get another ejector so I'm going to carefully taper the front leg starting at the tip on the forward side until I can get the back seated. Worst comes to worst, I'll have to buy another ejector and send it out for the frame to be repaired.

I don't know if I have enough room to drill the frame for a pin on the rear leg. What do you guys think?

[ar15barrels]

Checked it with a drill bit that fit the hole tightly.

It's not square to the deck of the frame.

I checked it from both directions (frt and rear) and it shows the same lean forward. I spun the drill bit and rechecked it 3 times. Same, same, same.

It's not square. It's hard (maybe impossible) to see in the picture, but the gap starts at the base and gets wider going up the shank before you get to the drill flutes. I didn't measure it because whatever the angle is, it's not square and it should be.



I can always get another ejector so I'm going to carefully taper the front leg starting at the tip on the forward side until I can get the back seated. Worst comes to worst, I'll have to buy another ejector and send it out for the frame to be repaired.

I don't know if I have enough room to drill the frame for a pin on the rear leg. What do you guys think?

It would not be much trouble to locate the frame square in a milling machine, find the center of the TOP of the front ejector hole and then BORE the hole straight down with an appropriate sized boring bar or even an endmill of the correct diameter.
That would make the hole be comprised of two different holes at angles to each other, but it would let the rear leg drop down.
I would STILL pin the rear leg after doing that because with the front hole being TWO holes, you are not holding it as solid as if the front hole were only ONE hole.

Measure your rail height.
Should be around 0.115" right?
No problem fitting a 0.062" hole in there.

Your frame looks like it might have a larger hole than the gi blueprint calls for.
Some companies use a 5/64" or 3/32" pin there but the USGI design only calls for a 1/16" pin and therefore hole size there.

[rplaw]

The rail on that side is coming in around .102-.103" depending on where I check it. At the back it's .102"

The roll pin is oval and slightly Z-shaped now. It measure .064" across the long axis of the oval and .055" across the flat sides. I'm going to assume that means it should be about .060" - .062" in diameter if undamaged.

I'm wondering if I'm going to have to order the pins or if I can source them locally. We have a fairly decent bearing supply place but it's for industrial applications (meaning big stuff) and I don't know if they stock or can get the tiny pins.