I need help, so confused...

[kcstott]

Wait, does featureless mean we have to pin and weld the muzzle brake on? No more folding stocks even though overall length is over 30 inches folded?

Bob Featureless means you can not have any of the following on a semiauto centerfire rifle capable of accepting a detachable magazine,

Pistol grip, Thumb hole stock, forward pistol grip, collapsible or folding stock, Flash hider, grenade launcher or flare launcher, fixed magazine with higher then 10 round capacity, and over all length less then 30"

so on an AK. you add a grip fin or remove the grip and be sure you are using a slant brake or other muzzle brake and not some of the flash hiders that came in some of the kits. Pin any folding stocks, and you're good to go.

After seeing the regs regarding not being able to remove your bullet button, and the regs saying it must be a state issued number engraved on your home builds in order to register... Do you really believe DOJ is gonna be ok with us just putting on our own numbers come 7/18? Featureless or not.. The new law says it must be done in accordance with BATFE standards, which implies it must be done by a manufacturer,

I fully expect the DOJ to mandate that the number can only come from them,

I really hope I'm wrong, but after seeing what they pulled yesterday, I have a really bad feeling...

I don't think featureless means pinning a break, just can't be a flashider on there, pinning the break is only necessary to keep it at a legal length, if it's a short barrel. And yes the stock needs to be pinned.

Yes it must be done by a manufacturer, and we already have a letter stating that home manufacturing is "unlicensed manufacturing" and in that letter it states that manufacturing for personal use is again "unlicensed manufacturing" and the only requirement is that if the firearm is transferred to another party at some point in the future it must be marked in accordance with CFR27 478.92.

So here's what I plan on doing before July 2018, I'll have my pantograph lift kit installed and fixturing ready to do AR lowers, and I will then mark each and every one of my rifles and pistols to the BATFE spec with my full name, City and state, make of the firearm and a model, Caliber is already marked on the barrel and my personal unique serial number. and i will not register.

Here's the deal, What it says on the application to register is one thing. What the law says is another. The CA law states very clearly that if my weapon is marked in accordance with BATFE regulations, i'm exempted from applying for a serial number, therefor how would I know what the hell they put on their stupid little form, I'd have to apply first?? No not happening.

[liber]

Well that bursts a lot of bubbles right there.

Still glad i'm not registering anything.

I stand corrected. Thanks for the info.

Yeah, this whole "Bullet Button Assault Weapon" is a bunch of BS.

Glad I'm not registering anything either.

Now let's see all those lemmings lining up to register...LOL

[liber]

No, I was talking about 80% receivers... "Ghost guns".. Your serial number was put there by a licensed manufacture pursuant to BATFE standards so you will not need to apply for a new one.

kali,

There was never anything that stated the serial number needed to be issued by an FFL07 that I know of.

[bigbob76]

Bob Featureless means you can not have any of the following on a semiauto centerfire rifle capable of accepting a detachable magazine,

Pistol grip, Thumb hole stock, forward pistol grip, collapsible or folding stock, Flash hider, grenade launcher or flare launcher, fixed magazine with higher then 10 round capacity, and over all length less then 30"

so on an AK. you add a grip fin or remove the grip and be sure you are using a slant brake or other muzzle brake and not some of the flash hiders that came in some of the kits. Pin any folding stocks, and you're good to go.

So featureless with no bullet button, and for a little while you can still use a standard capacity magazine in your featureless AK.

[kalibeltfeeder]

"Here's the deal, What it says on the application to register is one thing. What the law says is another. The CA law states very clearly that if my weapon is marked in accordance with BATFE regulations, i'm exempted from applying for a serial number"

I hear you KC and I hope your right, but I can see DOJ saying that the BATFE regulations apply to manufactures only.

"therefor how would I know what the hell they put on their stupid little form"
Ignorance of the law is never an acceptable excuse (unless your Hillary)

"There was never anything that stated the serial number needed to be issued by an FFL07 that I know of."

Your right Liber, the law says that you have to have markings on your gun by 1/1/18 pursuant to either chapter 44 of the u.s.c, which I believe the DOJ is going to say only applies to manufactures , or by the new regulations, I.e DOJ issued... We have two legal options either your gun was marked by the manufacture or you have to apply for a state issued one.

I hope you guys are right, I'm just a dumb ol electrician, but after seeing their new regulations on the new class of RAWs, I just don't think they're going to give us an easy loophole, just like I don't think that featureless' are going to be left alone.

[kcstott]

"Here's the deal, What it says on the application to register is one thing. What the law says is another. The CA law states very clearly that if my weapon is marked in accordance with BATFE regulations, i'm exempted from applying for a serial number"

I hear you KC and I hope your right, but I can see DOJ saying that the BATFE regulations apply to manufactures only.

"therefor how would I know what the hell they put on their stupid little form"
Ignorance of the law is never an acceptable excuse (unless your Hillary)

"There was never anything that stated the serial number needed to be issued by an FFL07 that I know of."

Your right Liber, the law says that you have to have markings on your gun by 1/1/18 pursuant to either chapter 44 of the u.s.c, which I believe the DOJ is going to say only applies to manufactures , or by the new regulations, I.e DOJ issued... We have two legal options either your gun was marked by the manufacture or you have to apply for a state issued one.

I hope you guys are right, I'm just a dumb ol electrician, but after seeing their new regulations on the new class of RAWs, I just don't think they're going to give us an easy loophole, just like I don't think that featureless' are going to be left alone.

Well with all that said. Screw em. I have a Brother in CHP and he has told me If it looks legit he's not digging any deeper unless you give him reason to do so. So screw the DOJ. My stuff will meet letter of law. they can suck it.

[AKSOG]

Wait, does featureless mean we have to pin and weld the muzzle brake on? No more folding stocks even though overall length is over 30 inches folded?

My understanding is that 30" stays the same for featureless. The only difference comes with registering and 26" OAL must be permanent.

[kalibeltfeeder]

Well with all that said. Screw em. I have a Brother in CHP and he has told me If it looks legit he's not digging any deeper unless you give him reason to do so. So screw the DOJ. My stuff will meet letter of law. they can suck it.

Well yeah your s*** probably looks legit! You do nice work.. You've told us They're gonna take one look at one of my garage hack jobs and knooooww something's up...


...you gotta see this knurl I did on a barrel today KC,

you'd probably take my tools away from me

[ar15barrels]

The CCR that came out today specifically states that the bullet button cannot be removed

Is it in the law? NO

Can you remove the bullet button after registration?

According to the regs.... No

Page 14 - 5477 (a)

https://cdn.firearmspolicy.org/wp-co...egulations.pdf

Can law enforcement arrest/ticket you based on CCR's?
My LE friend said they only arrest/ticket based on PC/VC/HSC.

[Malthusian]

Can law enforcement arrest/ticket you based on CCR's?
My LE friend said they only arrest/ticket based on PC/VC/HSC.

I agree with you 100%

That has been the issue with possession of standard capacity magazines, it is not in the penal code. There is no penal code to charge you with

However they would confiscate them and it would be up to the disenfranchised party to pursue retrieval

LEO's are not required to know the law. It was a recent court ruling.

An LEO can obviously confiscate the AR and arrest you for what they believe is a crime, which later turns out to be a mistake

I think I have painted enough of the picture to see how things could turn out

[kcstott]

Well yeah your s*** probably looks legit! You do nice work.. You've told us They're gonna take one look at one of my garage hack jobs and knooooww something's up...


...you gotta see this knurl I did on a barrel today KC,

you'd probably take my tools away from me

I appreciate that. but the quality of work come at a price. I have no life. I work a full time day job 50 or more hours a week, and then work the garage and shoot F class, and spend time with my daughter..

So yeah I drink to sleep.... If i didn't drink I'd be in the garage till it was time to head to the day job. I'm to old for that crap now, I don't mind 100 hour pay checks but damn i need some time to myself.

[Nathan Krynn]

"Here's the deal, What it says on the application to register is one thing. What the law says is another. The CA law states very clearly that if my weapon is marked in accordance with BATFE regulations, i'm exempted from applying for a serial number"

I hear you KC and I hope your right, but I can see DOJ saying that the BATFE regulations apply to manufactures only.

"therefor how would I know what the hell they put on their stupid little form"
Ignorance of the law is never an acceptable excuse (unless your Hillary)

"There was never anything that stated the serial number needed to be issued by an FFL07 that I know of."

Your right Liber, the law says that you have to have markings on your gun by 1/1/18 pursuant to either chapter 44 of the u.s.c, which I believe the DOJ is going to say only applies to manufactures , or by the new regulations, I.e DOJ issued... We have two legal options either your gun was marked by the manufacture or you have to apply for a state issued one.

I hope you guys are right, I'm just a dumb ol electrician, but after seeing their new regulations on the new class of RAWs, I just don't think they're going to give us an easy loophole, just like I don't think that featureless' are going to be left alone.

The CA regulations state clearly anyone can do the engraving.

~2) Once the a~~licant has received a DOJ issued serial number the a~licant may
contact a Federal Firearms Licensed Manufacturer (ty~) to have the serial
number applied in a manner consistent with this section and federal law However a
Federal Firearms Licensee is under no obligation to perform this work. Persons who
have manufactured their own firearm may also use non-licensed parties to ap~ly the
serial number and other required markings; however, the owner of the weapon must
. not leave the firearm unattended with an unlicensed part immolation of firearms
transfer and/or lending laws. Proof of the serial number being applied to the firearm
shall be given to the Department in the form of one or more di i~ta1 ~hato~ra~hs of the
newly serialized firearm being submitted in accordance with the ~ahoto requirement
noted in section 5474 fc).

[kcstott]

The CA regulations state clearly anyone can do the engraving.

~2) Once the a~~licant has received a DOJ issued serial number the a~licant may
contact a Federal Firearms Licensed Manufacturer (ty~) to have the serial
number applied in a manner consistent with this section and federal law However a
Federal Firearms Licensee is under no obligation to perform this work. Persons who
have manufactured their own firearm may also use non-licensed parties to ap~ly the
serial number and other required markings; however, the owner of the weapon must
. not leave the firearm unattended with an unlicensed part immolation of firearms
transfer and/or lending laws. Proof of the serial number being applied to the firearm
shall be given to the Department in the form of one or more di i~ta1 ~hato~ra~hs of the
newly serialized firearm being submitted in accordance with the ~ahoto requirement
noted in section 5474 fc).

I'll print that out on the form I'm going to make when i start doing this in the next few weeks. Can you post the actual section number where this can be found?? I'll do the searching for but the section number would help

Basically a disclaimer say i'm not responsible for your lack of education and if you misspell a word that's your problem not mine, frame and receivers are out of my control and are in a disassembled state when they arrive and when they leave, it's up to the owner to reassemble in a legal configuration. Crap like that.

[kalibeltfeeder]

The CA regulations state clearly anyone can do the engraving.

~2) Once the a~~licant has received a DOJ issued serial number .....

Yeah anyone can engrave their state issued serial numbers, and yeah their state issued numbers need to follow the federal requirements...

But After seeing how the DOJ wrote the regulations on the bullet buttons, I'm speculating that only two types of serial numbers will be considered legal on any firearm (not exempt by age, etc..) one a manufacture applies when they make the gun, i.e 100% receivers. And the second would be one that they gave you, i.e for 80%.

I have a bad feeling that they will not allow a non manufacture just to pick a random number and put it on their gun to satisfy the requirements for the new law, even though federal regulations allow just for that..

They want as many of us to register, know about as many guns as they can, or have as many of us as possible in violation..

[kcstott]

Yeah anyone can engrave their state issued serial numbers, and yeah their state issued numbers need to follow the federal requirements...

But After seeing how the DOJ wrote the regulations on the bullet buttons, I'm speculating that only two types of serial numbers will be considered legal on any firearm (not exempt by age, etc..) one a manufacture applies when they make the gun, i.e 100% receivers. And the second would be one that they gave you, i.e for 80%.

I have a bad feeling that they will not allow a non manufacture just to pick a random number and put it on their gun to satisfy the requirements for the new law, even though federal regulations allow just for that..

They want as many of us to register, know about as many guns as they can, or have as many of us as possible in violation..

And yet it's still fine to serialize your weapon and not register. They can't enforce what they don't know exists.

Which is why i said serialize, make featureless and don't register. Simple as that. Screw them. I will use their laws against them any way I can.