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  • bigbob76
    Veteran Member
    • Dec 2007
    • 3955

    I need help, so confused...

    I'm coaching a friend that just built his first AK and I have no clue what to tell him about bullet buttons or featureless builds. The more I read the crap the more confused I get. Am I correct that the only new thing with bullet buttons was that today was the last day to get an AK/AR out of 10 day wait from DROS? As of tomorrow does he need a bullet button if he leaves the pistol grip off of his fixed stock AK? Sorry, I never was the sharpest tool in the shed and now on top of that I'm old, lol. He needs to get it engraved now to have a legal homebuilt? Can he currently use his standard capacity mag without a pistol grip? Thanks in advance if you can make any of this simple enough for me to understand so I can keep him safe.
    If you can't explain it simply you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein
  • #2
    kcstott
    I need a LIFE!!
    • Nov 2011
    • 11796

    Today was the last day to get a bullet buttoned rifle. tomorrow it has to be a featureless build.

    Bullet button firearms are still legal to possess but must have been completed or possessed by today. you will have to convert to features or submit to registration by jan 2018

    Engraving is not required until July 2018 and must be in exact conformance to ATF regulations to be exempt from state registration.

    Read the first part of my compliance guide. spelled out so everybody can wrap their head around it.

    Comment

    • #3
      canid
      Junior Member
      • Jun 2014
      • 83

      Originally posted by kcstott
      tomorrow it has to be a featureless build.
      Featureless or SB 880 compliant fixed magazine build. I haven't given much thought yet to how to satisfy this in an ak pattern rifle but somebody will.
      Last edited by canid; 12-31-2016, 7:27 PM.
      Originally posted by Write Winger
      Like I said in the FB comments on this... they're guilty of conspiring to follow the law as written, otherwise known as liberty

      Comment

      • #4
        Malthusian
        Veteran Member
        • May 2010
        • 4133

        Originally posted by kcstott
        Today was the last day to get a bullet buttoned rifle. tomorrow it has to be a featureless build.

        Bullet button firearms are still legal to possess but must have been completed or possessed by today. you will have to convert to features or submit to registration by jan 2018

        Engraving is not required until July 2018 and must be in exact conformance to ATF regulations to be exempt from state registration.

        Read the first part of my compliance guide. spelled out so everybody can wrap their head around it.

        http://www.klstottlemyer.com/compliance-guide.html
        SB880 requires a CADOJ issued serial number if he wants to register as an assault rifle. The bullet button cannot be removed even after registration

        Yes I know it's a cage around the paddle release

        AB857 is another bill referring to engraving serial numbers, which is not required until 2018
        "While it may come as a surprise to the authors of the legislation, most semi-automatic pistols do in fact come with a pistol grip"
        Malthusianism is the idea that population growth is potentially exponential while the growth of the food supply is arithmetical at best.

        Comment

        • #5
          kcstott
          I need a LIFE!!
          • Nov 2011
          • 11796

          Originally posted by Malthusian
          SB880 requires a CADOJ issued serial number if he wants to register as an assault rifle. The bullet button cannot be removed even after registration

          Yes I know it's a cage around the paddle release

          AB857 is another bill referring to engraving serial numbers, which is not required until 2018
          Incorrect on on the AW registration and Bullet button.

          No where written in the AW law does it say that a RAW has to remain in original configuration.

          Some are looking at this as a way to get a new weapon on the RAW list and remove the BB. which is perfectly legal to do.

          The registration dead line and serial number requirement are on the same day so figure it out. You either serialize to remain featureless and unregistered or your submit a request for a serial number and register as a home build or RAW

          Comment

          • #6
            kcstott
            I need a LIFE!!
            • Nov 2011
            • 11796

            Originally posted by canid
            Featureless or SB 880 compliant fixed magazine build. I haven't given much thought yet to how to satisfy this in an ak pattern rifle but somebody will.
            By Build I mean to manufacture after 2016.

            Home construction of a bullet button weapon is illegal tomorrow. featureless builds or fixed mag non removable with action take down. and no one has addressed that issue.

            My AK's are featureless and will remain so.

            Comment

            • #7
              bigbob76
              Veteran Member
              • Dec 2007
              • 3955

              Originally posted by kcstott
              Today was the last day to get a bullet buttoned rifle. tomorrow it has to be a featureless build.

              Bullet button firearms are still legal to possess but must have been completed or possessed by today. you will have to convert to features or submit to registration by jan 2018

              Engraving is not required until July 2018 and must be in exact conformance to ATF regulations to be exempt from state registration.

              Read the first part of my compliance guide. spelled out so everybody can wrap their head around it.

              http://www.klstottlemyer.com/compliance-guide.html
              Thanks very much. I had guessed if anybody could explain it for me there was a pretty good chance it would be you. I read the info in your compliance guide also. So if he goes to the range next week with his fixed stock AK he is okay because the pistol grip has a kydex fin on it and he has a slant brake and no bullet button.
              If you can't explain it simply you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein

              Comment

              • #8
                Malthusian
                Veteran Member
                • May 2010
                • 4133

                Originally posted by kcstott
                Incorrect on on the AW registration and Bullet button.

                No where written in the AW law does it say that a RAW has to remain in original configuration.

                Some are looking at this as a way to get a new weapon on the RAW list and remove the BB. which is perfectly legal to do.

                The registration dead line and serial number requirement are on the same day so figure it out. You either serialize to remain featureless and unregistered or your submit a request for a serial number and register as a home build or RAW
                I would agree with all three points as stated in the law

                The CCR that came out today specifically states that the bullet button cannot be removed

                Is it in the law? NO

                Can you remove the bullet button after registration?

                According to the regs.... No

                Page 14 - 5477 (a)

                "While it may come as a surprise to the authors of the legislation, most semi-automatic pistols do in fact come with a pistol grip"
                Malthusianism is the idea that population growth is potentially exponential while the growth of the food supply is arithmetical at best.

                Comment

                • #9
                  kcstott
                  I need a LIFE!!
                  • Nov 2011
                  • 11796

                  Originally posted by Malthusian
                  I would agree with all three points as stated in the law

                  The CCR that came out today specifically states that the bullet button cannot be removed

                  Is it in the law? NO

                  Can you remove the bullet button after registration?

                  According to the regs.... No

                  Page 14 - 5477 (a)

                  https://cdn.firearmspolicy.org/wp-co...egulations.pdf
                  Well that bursts a lot of bubbles right there.

                  Still glad i'm not registering anything.

                  I stand corrected. Thanks for the info.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    kcstott
                    I need a LIFE!!
                    • Nov 2011
                    • 11796

                    Originally posted by bigbob76
                    Thanks very much. I had guessed if anybody could explain it for me there was a pretty good chance it would be you. I read the info in your compliance guide also. So if he goes to the range next week with his fixed stock AK he is okay because the pistol grip has a kydex fin on it and he has a slant brake and no bullet button.
                    he can actually be in possession of a bullet buttoned gun up until the registration deadline. Grace period.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Malthusian
                      Veteran Member
                      • May 2010
                      • 4133

                      Originally posted by kcstott
                      Well that bursts a lot of bubbles right there.

                      Still glad i'm not registering anything.

                      I stand corrected. Thanks for the info.
                      In this case, I would have been happier if I were wrong
                      "While it may come as a surprise to the authors of the legislation, most semi-automatic pistols do in fact come with a pistol grip"
                      Malthusianism is the idea that population growth is potentially exponential while the growth of the food supply is arithmetical at best.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        bigbob76
                        Veteran Member
                        • Dec 2007
                        • 3955

                        Wait, does featureless mean we have to pin and weld the muzzle brake on? No more folding stocks even though overall length is over 30 inches folded?
                        If you can't explain it simply you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          kalibeltfeeder
                          Member
                          • Feb 2014
                          • 451

                          After seeing the regs regarding not being able to remove your bullet button, and the regs saying it must be a state issued number engraved on your 80% home builds in order to register... Do you really believe DOJ is gonna be ok with us just putting on our own numbers on our 80% home built receivers come 7/18? Featureless or not.. The new law says it must be done in accordance with BATFE standards, which implies it must be done by a manufacturer,

                          I fully expect the DOJ to mandate that the number can only come from them,

                          I really hope I'm wrong, but after seeing what they pulled yesterday, I have a really bad feeling...

                          I don't think featureless means pinning a break, just can't be a flashider on there, pinning the break is only necessary to keep it at a legal length, if it's a short barrel. And yes the stock needs to be pinned.
                          Last edited by kalibeltfeeder; 01-01-2017, 5:25 AM. Reason: Clarified that I was only talking about 80%/home builds
                          But I don't come 'round here to meet nice people anyway
                          And what the hell am I doing drunk in the middle of the day

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            xman1
                            Junior Member
                            • Apr 2015
                            • 86

                            Originally posted by kalibeltfeeder
                            After seeing the regs regarding not being able to remove your bullet button, and the regs saying it must be a state issued number engraved on your home builds in order to register... Do you really believe DOJ is gonna be ok with us just putting on our own numbers come 7/18? Featureless or not.. The new law says it must be done in accordance with BATFE standards, which implies it must be done by a manufacturer,

                            I fully expect the DOJ to mandate that the number can only come from them,

                            I really hope I'm wrong, but after seeing what they pulled yesterday, I have a really bad feeling...

                            I don't think featureless means pinning a break, just can't be a flashider on there, pinning the break is only necessary to keep it at a legal length, if it's a short barrel. And yes the stock needs to be pinned.
                            Are you saying that my 100% stripped lower purchased from an FFL with serial numbers need to be engraved with a whole new number issued by DOJ? I do have few stripped lowers I plan on building on my own.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              kalibeltfeeder
                              Member
                              • Feb 2014
                              • 451

                              Originally posted by xman1
                              Are you saying that my 100% stripped lower purchased from an FFL with serial numbers need to be engraved with a whole new number issued by DOJ? I do have few stripped lowers I plan on building on my own.
                              No, I was talking about 80% receivers... "Ghost guns".. Xman Your serial number on your 100% was put there by a licensed manufacture pursuant to BATFE standards so you will not need to apply for a new one.
                              Last edited by kalibeltfeeder; 01-01-2017, 1:25 PM.
                              But I don't come 'round here to meet nice people anyway
                              And what the hell am I doing drunk in the middle of the day

                              Comment

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