Lessons learned from a class gone bad AAR

[SuperSet]

I've been tracking this thread since last week and it's quite a learning experience.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_9_19/233068_AAR___M3_Strategies_2_Day_Defensive_Handgun_with_Stephen_Pineau_10_18_and_19_Pinckney__MI.html

For those who help host and admin training classes, it serves as a reminder that without communication, proper expectations, and logistics planning, your class can turn out badly. I'm glad that this came out publicly so those in the industry can learn from it and apply the lessons learned.

TL;DR version:
1. Know your host range's logistics. Get those items in writing.
2. Make sure you have enough targets and stands for all the students.
3. Safety violations are to be taken seriously.
4. Instructors should be cognizant of the effect of their tone on students.

[Blackhorse2010]

I'd be pissed.

[Artema]

Sounds like a nice cluster. 8 hours cut from shooting time is significant!

[Eljay]

If you're spending that kind of money you shouldn't be shooting in relays either.

[kdruff2]

Imagine if you were one of the guys that came from out of state (travel expense on top of fees and ammo). I wasn't there but this seems to pass the threshold for where you would ask for a partial refund. You can probably do it pretty objectively as well using the reduced shoot time from what was originally published. But again, I wasn't there.

[rkt88edmo]

Moral of the story - take the refund.

[Stan08]

Yikes.

"A plan without logistics is merely a pipe dream..."

I have enough of a challenge just training across the San Fernando Valley, interstate would be a whole new nightmare. Depending on the size of his shop he needs what Marines would call a "Three Alpha" an assistant operations officer who solely just ensures there is a line between points A and B and he bugs the hell out of people until all the answers are met often with getting kicked out of people's offices...but after the answers are answered.

[GM_77]

It sounds like all communication didn't go through the host and there was some information exchange between the range and the instructor that the host might have not known about.

I've seen that happen at work when two teams are working together remotely. The cluster that happened in that thread resembles a couple of FUBAR situations at my workplace. Everyone had bits of information and no one had the big picture. It doesn't seem like anyone had the big picture in that thread.

I don't know how all hosts deal with it but from what I've learned its just worth it to have information go through one person so they have the big picture.

[SuperSet]

Looks like that thread will get nuked soon. I guess it's getting too heated.

It's interesting that the instructor says one thing and the range and RSF (MagPul Steve Fisher) says another. Each blaming the other, which only proves GM_77s point.

[ramzar]

It's ultimately the instructor's responsibility to have the proper logistics and backups in place and communicate to shooters well in advance in case of such drastic changes. Assumptions are a poor substitute.

[Stan08]

It's ultimately the instructor's responsibility to have the proper logistics and backups in place and communicate to shooters well in advance in case of such drastic changes. Assumptions are a poor substitute.

Heck yeah, its the instructors show. He is on the stage. When its my show I often do things in redundancy; dual alarms in the morning, everything loaded the night before, spare firearms, spare computer and projector for lectures. Nothing worse than looking and feeling like a jerk for a show.

[Case]

Moral of the story - take the refund.

This. ^^^^^^^^

If you don't like it take the money. Whatever happened - and there is some dispute about what went down - if you get your money back you are only out your time and ammo. Not ideal but better than nothing.

Sounds like the instructor is good at teaching but not so good at the business and logistics of teaching. It happens. I've had classes from a name brand guy moved to a range 60 miles apart after I registered. That sucked. I could have gotten a refund but I sucked it up. So everyone deals with those issues. Seems like pineal could have handled it better in this recent instance but it's not the end of the world.

The safety stuff is non negotiable but that issue was not clearly identified to me from what I read.

[Eljay]

This. ^^^^^^^^

If you don't like it take the money. Whatever happened - and there is some dispute about what went down - if you get your money back you are only out your time and ammo. Not ideal but better than nothing.

I'm sure the guy is only refunding the class fee not the travel and hotel money.

[Jonb.]

Sheesh what a terrible deal. Disrespectful behavior, poor planning, and terrible communication. At least the instructor had the integrity to admit his faults and offer the refund.

[ramzar]

I'm sure the guy is only refunding the class fee not the travel and hotel money.

That's a very valid point and I'd include meals as well. Additionally, you don't get your time back!