IDPA first time

[HighLander51]

My dad died serving his country many years ago, but thank you very much for reminding of that.

However on to Pizzer's question, it's called trigger prep or staging. Just part of trigger discipline whether in competition or in confrontation. Now Pizzer, answer my question, do you compete?

[therealnickb]

My dad died serving his country many years ago, but thank you very much for reminding of that.

However on to Pizzer's question, it's called trigger prep or staging. Just part of trigger discipline whether in competition or in confrontation. Now Pizzer, answer my question, do you compete?

I did.

[Ronin2]

After re reading this thread, two quotes come to mind...

“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” ----George Carlin

One is also reminded of that timeless observation adapted from a line in Henry IV:

Discretion is the better part of valor.....

[therealnickb]

I did laugh when he cited "trigger prep or staging" since that should only occur when you are damn close to being on target. This is true regardless of the situation.

"Trigger prep or staging" should never occur as you draw. I don't care who you are and I've never seen anyone teach it. And if anyone wants to emulate a bad habit, that would be a mistake too.

Redundant sure. Some things benefit from redundancy.

[Moto]

After reading this thread again it's obvious I probably shouldn't give another example of how its done when someone gets advanced. Really its a waste of time with some of the buttheads hear.

Truth of the matter is that it's better that 99% of the people hear don't try it. Most people don't have competent control over a weapon and I agree better to stay off the trigger until the utter last minute. Better for them not to understand that the examples I gave were when someone has already acquired the target and made the decision to shoot. And it's better not for them to open up to and understand how the greats do it.

So go ahead and criticize the pros. Not just Mr. Vogel by the way, almost ALL of them. My apologies for showing examples that the best teach one way but when drawing in under a second other truths come into factor. I was going to post a vid with slow motion examples but you know what, it's a waste here.

[HighLander51]

[therealnickb]

Irony is thick here.....

Please re-read my first reply to you in this thread.

[kentactic]

Only on Calguns would there be a debate on wether or not its a good idea to knowingly break gun safety rules... its just comical. I have learned one thing though. I'm going to keep an eye out in the future for this fingering the trigger trait. It might just be a flaw in comp. shooters generally or it might be some flaw in the human mind that after one tries to be too fast they start trying to complete tasks out of order in their subconscious in order to be faster.

But I think we can say with some certainty that if you talked about this with Vogel and Avery they wouldn't defend it and say they are pros so they can break safety rules. I might just call Ron and ask him myself.

[CalTeacher]

Only on Calguns would there be a debate on wether or not its a good idea to knowingly break gun safety rules... its just comical. I have learned one thing though. I'm going to keep an eye out in the future for this fingering the trigger trait. It might just be a flaw in comp. shooters generally or it might be some flaw in the human mind that after one tries to be too fast they start trying to complete tasks out of order in their subconscious in order to be faster.

But I think we can say with some certainty that if you talked about this with Vogel and Avery they wouldn't defend it and say they are pros so they can break safety rules. I might just call Ron and ask him myself.

This is funny coming from a guy who thinks its ok to break the 180 rule and handle a firearm while people are downrange.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=12334592#post12334592

[Lugiahua]

Let me ask a simple question:

If Vogel was breaking safety rule, do people also breaking rules by shooting "Close Contact" (Count 3) drills?
Since their fingers are on trigger once cleared holster, without using frontsight to acquire the targets.

[Moto]

This is funny coming from a guy who thinks its ok to break the 180 rule and handle a firearm while people are downrange.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...2#post12334592

Oh I missed that thread.

LOL what a character!

[Moto]

I like what Rob Leatham says:

I recently ran a class of military shooters, and among other things, ran them through the IDPA classifier, Participated in a local steel match and shot The Arizona State IDPA Championships! Let me share with you some interesting observations. They get more wound up and nervous in a match than they do in combat! Why? Because they have time to think about it and get tense! I respect these guys opinion more than ANY so called tactician out there who is sure he knows the tricks to surviving an armed confrontation. These guys have been doing that a bunch lately and think IDPA and IPSC shooting both offer much to the testing phase of ones ability. On the other hand, they to a man do not agree with the philosophies that either is inherently more practical. All the little things like which way do you turn or where you do the load is all something that we can discuss all day on the range, but on the battlefield, men do things that may not be considered practical or tactical and live because they did it fast, accurately and decisively. On the other hand, there are those who did it "right" by some folks judgement and still lost. We all have our ideas of how it should be done, and the rules of the existing games are just that, some ones ideas. To say going to any kind of shooting event will teach you technique that will get you killed is idiotic and irresponsible. Guys, it is cool to have your own plan but do not try to pass it off as gospel to the rest of us. A discussion of technique and philosophy seldom ends with agreement, but that does not make the other guy wrong or stupid. These are just games designed to test your abilities in a very controlled and pre-planned arena. Who wins is your best shot, not your most likely survivor. That can not be tested under the clock. However, those that master executing under the timer are probably more likely to do well in a pressure situation, than someone who chokes, misses or gets procedural penalties. This is a point the boys all agree on, thus they train hard and test themselves in the arena of competition to see what they know and whether they can do it.
Rob

[therealnickb]

If you are willing to open your mind, let me show you one example:
Here is a vid of one of my favorites, Ron Avery. I think you and all will agree with this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URLTraSQvmE

Ok Ok, NOW watch Ron again in this video Ron teaching how to properly draw the pistol. If you freeze frame the video right at about the 20-23 second mark (and it takes a few tries) clearly his finger is on the trigger while the gun is still pointing downwards!
Oh my God! The horror!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMSlCyc-SQQ

Did you learn something there chief? HUH?

And I'm by no means a pro here. I have a lot to learn. And I am willing. But no need to insult me.

So Ron advocates and demonstrates one technique but uses one he does not recommend. I'm missing the argument here.

Do as I say, not as I do? Serious question.

[Lugiahua]

The whole point of having 180' and cold range is because there are shooters of different skill level. Not everyone is ready to walk around unholstered safely.

That being said...I don't necessary agree with 180 rules, I was trained to use Sul/down position when moving.

[Ronin2]

Ronin2, uh uh uh, name calling is not allowed, it's against forum rules.

7) Outright insults, name calling, denigrating comments and ‘baiting’ is not allowed.Comments of this nature are not allowed, if you do not like someone simply do not post in their thread. Neither does this rule give anyone free rein to be obnoxious and claim it as a specific trait. This rule refers to comments and post intended solely to offend, antagonize or hurt. ..

Again, you are assuming facts that aren't in evidence ....

After re reading this thread, two quotes come to mind...

“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” ----George Carlin

One is also reminded of that timeless observation adapted from a line in Henry IV:

Discretion is the better part of valor.....

You just are not very rational are you (and that is yet another observation/question, NOT name calling....LOL)? Take a look at my last post (provided above) and QUOTE for me "who" I was calling "what name"? All I did list a couple famous often used quotes regarding this thread in general and directed at no one in particular. Your incorrect assumptions indicate to me, that your reading comprehension and understanding of the English language leaves much to be desired.

The fact that you may be prone to "Freudian slips" with your assumptions.... Well that's another issue entirely. So IF YOU think "the shoe fits" ....THAT'S YOUR ISSUE/DOING... Not mine.