Does anyone post in the Brian Enos forums?

[midvalleyshooter]

OLL's aren't really practical in 3 gun. It would take forever to load it 4 times in a stage. A much better choice is M1A or an accurized mini.

To promote 3 gun in CA. for new shooters there will have to be a 10 round class, Cal class, Production class or whatever you want to call it.

10 round rifle, 10 pistol, limited shotgun is obtainable, but maybe limit it to a HD type shotgun 6 round.

Just a thought.

Not a bad idea: a new division called "California limited 10". Limited to any 10 round production handgun, a Mini or keltec and your average big 5 pump shotgun....mossberg 500, 590, remington 870....etc.


Keith

[sargenv]

Dunno man... I shoot a Revolver, a 20 gauge 870 pump with a +4 mag, and a Custom Mini 14. I don't feel like I'm at a disadvantage at all.

Now my old, less fun but faster setup was a Para P16, A Browning Gold semi, and that Mini 14.

Vince

[shooterx10]

USPSA Heavy Metal division

Did the USPSA start this divison for the people of CA who missed the boat that left the state before 2000?

I think if someone was using an offlist gripless build AR with only 10 rounders, he or she can be competitive if they practiced a lot (hit Alphas only) and used the Redi-mag or mag cinches for fast mag changes. Or is putting two mags together via mag cinch or duct tape constructing a mag?

Here are the specs for Heavy Metal (from the USPSA Nationals website):

HEAVY METAL CATEGORY
Heavy Metal will be a category only of Limited Division. All ammunition must meet the major power factor floors for each firearm type. The following criteria has been established for firearms:
Pistol: .44 caliber minimum - magazines/cylinder may not be loaded with more than 8 rounds at start signal
Rifle: .308 caliber minimum - magazines may not be loaded with more than 20 rounds at start signal
Shotgun: 12 ga. minimum - Pump action only.

Tactical and Heavy Metal divisions are viable and doable for newbies in CA, however for Open division, well, that's another story. I'll leave that up to TMC or sargenv to answer that one.

Now my old, less fun but faster setup was a Para P16, A Browning Gold semi, and that Mini 14.

Vince

Hey Vince, I thought the way how you did up your Gold and Mini in USPSA Open Division specs was cool!

[sargenv]

Open? I haven't shot open with those two in 3 years, it wasn't working that well for me. Speed sticks were near impossible because they didn't make adapters for it. If you saw me recently (Last year or so) I was shooting Tactical division. It was a good setup, but I had the 870 as a safe queen and I wanted to have some fun.

I'm shooting my Bolt gun for the BARC, need to get some Uncle mike's cartridge holders.

Vince

[gose]

No matter how fast your reloads are, if you're using 10 round mags you will fall behind in both open and tactical. Remember that a rifle stage can have 40 rounds and even more in local matches. 4-6 reloads vs someone shooting with a 40 or 45 round mag (or even a beta) will kill your times, especially on shorter hose-type stages. There is no way to be competitive with 10 rounders, period. In Heavy metal you might be doing somewhat better, since you'll have 10 rounds/mag vs the others with 20. Reloading a M1A is slower than an AR, so you would still lose some time and especially to anyone using a 308 AR.

CA 3GUN Production:
handguns: according to USPSA Production
rifles: according to USPSA Tactical, but only 10 round mags allowed
shotguns: according to USPSA standard

[sargenv]

With so few places holding 3-gun and so many people with pre-bans, I think the idea of a production or California only class may not work. But I've been proven incorrect before..

Vince

[3GunFunShooter]

Eldrado Rod and Gun (near Placerville) has a IDPA style 3 gun match 2 times a year.
April 29, 2007 is next match.
10 round limit in pistol and rifle. 100 yard max rifle.
Shotgun is also limited to 6 rounds (I think)
Great fun match. I've seen a lever 45-70 shooter. You know when he hits the plates at 100 yds. and uses a 44 mag revolver.

[gose]

With so few places holding 3-gun and so many people with pre-bans, I think the idea of a production or California only class may not work. But I've been proven incorrect before..
Vince

I think you are correct. Especially since (according to the DOJ) it is perfectly legal to borrow pre-ban magazines from someone in your squad.
Considering how friendly most IPSC/USPSA shooters are, I would imagine that it wouldn't be too hard to find someone that would let you use a few of his pre-bans during a match.

[shooterx10]

IDPA 3-gun???

If IDPA starts a 3-gun branch, then this will put new 3-gun shooters in CA on a level playing field with each other. This will be good especially for those who missed the "high capacity mag boat" that left this state before 2000. Since IDPA puts a 10+1 round limit on their semi-auto pistols in competition and prohibits optics, speed holsters, and such, there won't be that equipment race that is in the USPSA.

For some time, I have heard rumors about IDPA starting a 3-gun branch, but nothing has really come about.

Looking at the pic below, the AR in the center with gripless config, tactical holster and mag pouches for the 1911 (instead of the Safariland rig), and 10 round mags for the 1911 and AR, then this package would be great for a defensive like 3-gun match. However, there won't be that many targets to hose since I think there is a cap of rounds (30) on any course of fire. Please correct me if I'm wrong on that in the IDPA rules.

[3GunFunShooter]

The match near Placerville is an IDPA Style match.
They do not follow all IDPA rules.
Yes, they have had hoser stages, well over 18 rounds.
Target placement, # of steel targets, is all up to match director, who likes to shoot.
Safety of course first.

[Mirage]

I read there a lot.
There is so much information on Brian's forum I rarely find a need to Post any questions. It may take a bit of reading but, if you use the search function your question has probably been asked and answered before.
I would be very interested it an Oppressed Californian Division.

[LCAZES]

The odds of this are slim to none. Even the L10 handgun division has been on the chopping block for a while now......

[gose]

The odds of this are slim to none. Even the L10 handgun division has been on the chopping block for a while now......

I'm guessing production as it stands might come under fire as well, especially since USPSA will run some matches under IPSC rules this year (meaning speed holsters and standard capacity mags)

[Mirage]

I don't understand how there cannot be support for these Divisions. Especially with more young shooters looking at the sport, and no access to standard capacity mags. If the kids can't inherit these things they get buried with the owners.
I know my feelings when I found out there would be no Heavy Metal Division in the upcoming match. I am going to have to shoot 10 round capacity mags and a pump 5+1 in Tactical Division? I should just put what the entry fee would cost me toward a competitive shotgun, but that still doesn't solve having to use reduced capacity mags. The way I see it is, if you don't have an even slate to play on, then I think most people will decide not to play that game. Of coarse this is just a California problem.

[LCAZES]

Are you a USPSA member? If you are, contact your area director and let know how you feel. Their contact info is available on the USPSA website.