Preventing Training Scars (Number of Shots)

[elSquid]

http://www.evergreeneditions.com/pub...articleBrowser

Thanks. Noted: the reference to LAPD SWAT.

I think that I was first exposed to the concept from one of Darryl Bolke

[HKAllTheThings]

Thanks. Noted: the reference to LAPD SWAT.

I think that I was first exposed to the concept from one of Darryl Bolke’s posts over at pistol-training.com

It was probably in one of the various “split time” threads there.

IIRC, when Bolke was first tasked with training way back when, he went over to the folks at LAPD Metro/D platoon for guidance. He took the lessons learned and implemented them at his department…and they generally worked pretty well in subsequent shootings.

— Michael

It makes sense to me to say 'don't be a in a hurry to shoot'

But once the shooting starts, you best be in a hurry.

[AFTII]

You are really talking about two skill sets: making lethal hits and assessing the damage you are causing.

About the only way to make such a damage assessment in real life is to either get into a shootout (not recommended) or to go hunting.

There really is no better [legal] way to test your abilities and those of your firearm / ammo combo than hunting. You'll quickly realize that animals (humans are animals) don't just roll over and die when they are hit with a pistol round - unless you disrupt their nervous system.

Short of a CNS hit, exsanguination can be slow and an animal could still kill you or escape while they are literally dead on their feet.

One time while hunting, my friend and I came upon a wounded deer. Someone shot one of its rear legs off and it was in pretty bad shape. I could not stand to see it suffer, so I decided to put it out of its misery.

I walked up to within about 15 yards of the deer. I fired one shot from a 300 Weatherby mag into its chest at that distance. After I recovered from the recoil, I looked up expecting to see the deer in a lump. It wasn't. It was standing in the same place just looking at me. I thought I missed and loudly stated "WTF" and jacked another round into the chamber.

At that, the deer tried to move, but its far shoulder was broken so it fell down. It took over a minute for it to die. When I cleaned it, I found my shot was perfect. I shredded both lungs and the top of its heart, broke ribs and the far shoulder and had about a 2.5" exit wound.

The bottom line, I delivered about 2 tons of energy with pinpoint accuracy to a severely injured 150 lb deer at a distance of about 15 yards, it stood there and looked at me and I thought I missed. If it hadn't dropped when I spoke to my hunting partner, I would have shot it again. The same applies to ANY animal. Shoot until they drop or shoot until you stop the threat.

As for handguns, they generally suck. I've shot small animals, ground hogs, with a 9mm. I never recovered one. They all crawled into their holes. I don't know if they eventually succumbed to their wounds. OTOH, I've shot many of them with a .222 Rem and had them drop in their tracks. Pistols are pathetic stoppers. Become proficient at making head shots.

[elSquid]

It makes sense to me to say 'don't be a in a hurry to shoot'

But once the shooting starts, you best be in a hurry.

Gobs of discussions about this over at pistol-forum, by people with the experiential background to talk about it. ( Unlike me. )

Here's a thread I grabbed at semi-random. "Dagga Boy" is Bolke.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?12902-The-Annoying-Rightness-of-Bolke-and-Dobbs

Search "split times" over there and you'll be rewarded with endless discussion.

-- Michael

[Matt P]

[SG29736]

Start with just putting different numbers of shots on each target if you can set up multiple targets. Just don't get in the habit of 2,2,2,2.

[HKAllTheThings]

You are really talking about two skill sets: making lethal hits and assessing the damage you are causing.

About the only way to make such a damage assessment in real life is to either get into a shootout (not recommended) or to go hunting.

There really is no better [legal] way to test your abilities and those of your firearm / ammo combo than hunting. You'll quickly realize that animals (humans are animals) don't just roll over and die when they are hit with a pistol round - unless you disrupt their nervous system.

Short of a CNS hit, exsanguination can be slow and an animal could still kill you or escape while they are literally dead on their feet.

One time while hunting, my friend and I came upon a wounded deer. Someone shot one of its rear legs off and it was in pretty bad shape. I could not stand to see it suffer, so I decided to put it out of its misery.

I walked up to within about 15 yards of the deer. I fired one shot from a 300 Weatherby mag into its chest at that distance. After I recovered from the recoil, I looked up expecting to see the deer in a lump. It wasn't. It was standing in the same place just looking at me. I thought I missed and loudly stated "WTF" and jacked another round into the chamber.

At that, the deer tried to move, but its far shoulder was broken so it fell down. It took over a minute for it to die. When I cleaned it, I found my shot was perfect. I shredded both lungs and the top of its heart, broke ribs and the far shoulder and had about a 2.5" exit wound.

The bottom line, I delivered about 2 tons of energy with pinpoint accuracy to a severely injured 150 lb deer at a distance of about 15 yards, it stood there and looked at me and I thought I missed. If it hadn't dropped when I spoke to my hunting partner, I would have shot it again. The same applies to ANY animal. Shoot until they drop or shoot until you stop the threat.

As for handguns, they generally suck. I've shot small animals, ground hogs, with a 9mm. I never recovered one. They all crawled into their holes. I don't know if they eventually succumbed to their wounds. OTOH, I've shot many of them with a .222 Rem and had them drop in their tracks. Pistols are pathetic stoppers. Become proficient at making head shots.