*NEW* Front Sight Members Check-In Here!

[seeedgar]

So, what happened to all the money he was paying himself from FS income that was for the proposed development of FS or ongoing operations??

[Vinnie Boombatz]

So, what happened to all the money he was paying himself from FS income that was for the proposed development of FS or ongoing operations??

I've wondered about this as well. No lawsuits accusing him of embezzling money from the company, etc?

[surferbum]

One of the Nuggets was that Front Sight was owned by three LLCs. Two of the LLCs had a 49 1/2% interest. His wife and him plus others possibly were with the LLC. A third LLC which was only 1% was completely owned by him and had 100% of the voting rights.


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[NorthBay Shooter]

I really like this part
"While the Debtor’s records reflect that insider transfers occurred in the three years before that (i.e., 5/24/2015 through 5/23/2018), the Debtor’s records also reflect that the Debtor was solvent at the time and that significant income taxes were paid on the Debtor’s profits from those distributions (i.e., $1.3 million for the period from 5/24/2015 through 5/23/2016, $4.9 million for the period 5/24/2016 through 5/23/2017 and $2.5 million for the period from 5/24/2017 through 5/23/2018). Given the Debtor’s solvency, profitability and the large amount of income tax paid related thereto, the Debtor believes that any fraudulent transfer action initiated against its insiders would be costly and ineffective."

Rather than spending the money on "actually" building the New Front Sight, he just took the money. This is the definition of a Ponzi scheme

[dad4mnc]

Nothing new here, just interesting:

https://youtu.be/Ma9FWqrBXDM

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[Bralowe]

Nothing new here, just interesting:

https://youtu.be/Ma9FWqrBXDM

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[Citizen_B]

I saw that also. I'm not surprised though. It's common practice to do that for information as well as business reasons. I don't think the details of the consulting agreement are or will be public knowledge.

[eaglemike]

Here is a link to a mention of the original Diamond membership price .
Above I remembered it as $100K - here is a post from 2011 with that pice in the thread

https://www.xdtalk.com/threads/front-sight-diamond-membership-deal.164932/

[DRM6000]

Here is a link to a mention of the original Diamond membership price .
Above I remembered it as $100K - here is a post from 2011 with that pice in the thread
https://www.xdtalk.com/threads/front...p-deal.164932/

I asked an instructor how he got involved with FS and he told me he came into some money and bought a $100k membership. IIRC, he said he didn't take too many classes as a student.

[Supersapper]

Nothing new here, just interesting:

https://youtu.be/Ma9FWqrBXDM

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I saw the video. I just feel a bit like they are being disingenuous. I know that shooting can be pricey, and shooting education can be pricey over time especially. But these guys hype all of this and that, but it's out of the realm of most people with their pricing model.

It's too bad. They seemed like a real winner.

[Vinnie Boombatz]

I saw the video. I just feel a bit like they are being disingenuous. I know that shooting can be pricey, and shooting education can be pricey over time especially. But these guys hype all of this and that, but it's out of the realm of most people with their pricing model.

It's too bad. They seemed like a real winner.

I agree. I think the Prairie Fire is biting off more than they can chew and are unfortunately confusing the general public's love of firearms with people's love to spend money on training, which are two very different things.

Sure, there are lots of people who love owning and shooting guns, but there are MUCH less that will spend good money to get training. People would rather own more guns instead of spending money to actually eb taught how to use them properly. Why spend several hundred or a grand or two on a class when they could buy a new firearm and have something tangible to show for that money spent?

By no mens am I saying that this is right, because these days I spend more money on classes and training. I enjoy learning and actually being able to run the firearms I have effectively and efficiently, but for many that's just not the goal. They just want to collect and have them, and going to the range once in a while and shooting a few boxes at a target from a stationary bay is all they want to do and believe that's all they nee to be trained. There's also the fact that because it's very expensive, many simply can't afford it.

Seems like Prairie Fire is going to be more focused on competition and training wanna-be "operators". Front Sight got a bad reputation for the way they owner behaved and ran the business, but it's hard to argue the validity of their curriculum, in particular their intro classes; 4DDHG, Tactical Shotgun, etc. I really enjoyed their curriculum and how thorough and comprehensive it was, how it was tailored to the person who had never touched a firearm before while still allowing the somewhat experienced shooter to still get something out of the class. And as cheesy as some of the presentations were, the lectures about when and when not to shoot, what to expect if you unfortunately have to use your firearm in self defense and color code of mental awareness lectures were great. I went there the first time thinking what the heck are they going to teach me in 4 days? After that initial visit I realized 4 days wasn't nearly enough and wanted to go back, and it gave me a lot more respect for the place (before I knew about how Piazza rant eh business and how he treated his employees) for putting so much emphasis on safety and addressing all the other things that came along with being a firearms owner in addition to just shooting.

Would be nice if Prairie Fire retained this sort of approach, but like I mentioned above, it seems like they are more focused on competition shooting and making peopel think they're Tacti-cool operators.

[seeedgar]

I've wondered about this as well. No lawsuits accusing him of embezzling money from the company, etc?

How about misappropriation of membership funds, misrepresentation and skirting with or outright fraud!! Who knows what else he should be charged and prosecuted for !!

[damon1272]

Vinnie
Good post and I agree. One thing I was thinking about that PF will miss on is the family aspect. That was one thing that FS did extremely well. Many many families came when kids classes were held. They did a great job on safety and introduced kids to firearms.

[deepsquatter]

Thank you. I'll check it out.

[deepsquatter]

Thanks.

Thank you. I"ll have to check it out when get a free Saturday.

For you and anyone else who wants it. If you come to a Saturday practice and just tell one of the RO's you are new, they will give you some pointers. They are not going to train you but you can get some tips. Additionally, there are a lot of good shooters there practicing, and they will offer to help as well. Everyone has to start someplace.


If you want more info, just DM me.