*NEW* Front Sight Members Check-In Here!

[Mustard]

What I find funny is that FS may have actually made money on the hotel, condo's, RV park, conference center, etc. If, and it's the if that matters, if, FS didn't give all the revenue away from those by including it into the free memberships.

For example, if he built the hotel on the property, but you had to pay the going rate (based on in town hotels), he could have gotten a ton of revenue. Almost everyone who trained there would have stayed there. The restaurant would have been full every day. But he chose to offer an upgrade to the memberships at the time (I think it was guardian), with an add-on of hotels for life. After that offering, hotels for life came with every new membership level. Then there was Heritage. Get the condo/timeshare. He cleaned the books of excess memberships and training certs, hotel certs, etc. by allowing members to use them as the reservation down payment. They were overpriced so much that if he built them, they would have generated good revenue. That was another good move, but then he kept going back to the well and offering more and once again, the potential revenue stream was sucked dry before it even started. That is why nothing ever happened. There was no reason to build any of it because it was a loser. The only thing that paid back was the additional ranges because he could train more. A bunch of other missteps and then COVID. The final straw.

Some coin/ dollar operated showers world have made a pretty penny. If you don't have a hotel after your last day of class, you have to travel all funky

[seeedgar]

What I find funny is that FS may have actually made money on the hotel, condo's, RV park, conference center, etc. If, and it's the if that matters, if, FS didn't give all the revenue away from those by including it into the free memberships.

For example, if he built the hotel on the property, but you had to pay the going rate (based on in town hotels), he could have gotten a ton of revenue. Almost everyone who trained there would have stayed there. The restaurant would have been full every day. But he chose to offer an upgrade to the memberships at the time (I think it was guardian), with an add-on of hotels for life. After that offering, hotels for life came with every new membership level. Then there was Heritage. Get the condo/timeshare. He cleaned the books of excess memberships and training certs, hotel certs, etc. by allowing members to use them as the reservation down payment. They were overpriced so much that if he built them, they would have generated good revenue. That was another good move, but then he kept going back to the well and offering more and once again, the potential revenue stream was sucked dry before it even started. That is why nothing ever happened. There was no reason to build any of it because it was a loser. The only thing that paid back was the additional ranges because he could train more. A bunch of other missteps and then COVID. The final straw.

Pipedreams!! Anything beyond a training facility was never intended!!

[seeedgar]

I think there's a lot of truth in this expose.

[NorthBay Shooter]

What I find funny is that FS may have actually made money on the hotel, condo's, RV park, conference center, etc. If, and it's the if that matters, if, FS didn't give all the revenue away from those by including it into the free memberships.

For example, if he built the hotel on the property, but you had to pay the going rate (based on in town hotels), he could have gotten a ton of revenue. Almost everyone who trained there would have stayed there. The restaurant would have been full every day. But he chose to offer an upgrade to the memberships at the time (I think it was guardian), with an add-on of hotels for life. After that offering, hotels for life came with every new membership level. Then there was Heritage. Get the condo/timeshare. He cleaned the books of excess memberships and training certs, hotel certs, etc. by allowing members to use them as the reservation down payment. They were overpriced so much that if he built them, they would have generated good revenue. That was another good move, but then he kept going back to the well and offering more and once again, the potential revenue stream was sucked dry before it even started. That is why nothing ever happened. There was no reason to build any of it because it was a loser. The only thing that paid back was the additional ranges because he could train more. A bunch of other missteps and then COVID. The final straw.

[seeedgar]

That right there is a reason FS failed. Not that you jumped on a deal but what did FS get for that $40 Commander? FS could have had more revenue if that $40 Commander came with a $1,000 payment to FS. Piazza cut the worth of memberships to basically $0 by selling them dirt cheap. $40 for all that training, everyone knows that doesn't pass the smell test. When Piazza was selling $125 Diamonds, it was the same thing, people buying tons of them and FS got $125 each for a "lifetime" of training. If he had the condition that whoever bought it would have to pay FS an additional $1000 or 2 that additional revenue would have gone a long way. He is a horrible business man and equally bad huckster. I'd bet if someone bought some land and copied the FS business idea, reasonably priced lifetime memberships for all courses it would fly. Just add a reasonable yearly fee or per class charge, limit it to say 4 or 6 classes a yr it would work.

I might be giving him much more credit than he deserves , but this end game may have been already calculated in his own business plan. I admit, I was one of those with a low cost membership ($759, and I think that was more than I could have paid) and took @14 or more classes, but I never bought into the bonus and resort nonsense. I was banned and received all my money back. I participated due to needing the training for armed private security in CA for myself and possible employees. I have also paid retail for training at Gunsite and various other training facilities in CA and from celebrity visiting trainers like Larry Vickers. I think the purpose of low cost memberships was to get as many people to experience entry level training and then spring for higher upgrades in hopes the resort, hotel thing would actually happen. I don't think he was ever going to go beyond a training facility. He had done this before.

[beanz2]

https://www.trigger-treat.com/202201...t-2/index.html

[LCU1670]

https://www.trigger-treat.com/20220122-front-sight-restructuring/voices/20220623-insider-report-2/index.html

[SWalt]

Got my Commander membership on this forum in trade for a $40 widgit. First class was in Jan of '19, last class was in Feb of '22. 49 classes and 135 training days in three years. Even made it all the way to Tac Scenarios in one year. Ah, it was a good run while it lasted...no regrets.
To all my fellow instructors and students from there, here's to finding greener pastures.

That right there is a reason FS failed. Not that you jumped on a deal but what did FS get for that $40 Commander? FS could have had more revenue if that $40 Commander came with a $1,000 payment to FS. Piazza cut the worth of memberships to basically $0 by selling them dirt cheap. $40 for all that training, everyone knows that doesn't pass the smell test. When Piazza was selling $125 Diamonds, it was the same thing, people buying tons of them and FS got $125 each for a "lifetime" of training. If he had the condition that whoever bought it would have to pay FS an additional $1000 or 2 that additional revenue would have gone a long way. He is a horrible business man and equally bad huckster. I'd bet if someone bought some land and copied the FS business idea, reasonably priced lifetime memberships for all courses it would fly. Just add a reasonable yearly fee or per class charge, limit it to say 4 or 6 classes a yr it would work.

[Kenponographer]

Got my Commander membership on this forum in trade for a $40 widgit. First class was in Jan of '19, last class was in Feb of '22. 49 classes and 135 training days in three years. Even made it all the way to Tac Scenarios in one year. Ah, it was a good run while it lasted...no regrets.
To all my fellow instructors and students from there, here's to finding greener pastures.

[Supersapper]

Wow...what changes. This is what i get for being out of the loop for a while.

Would just seem to a simpleton like me that having IP anywhere near this, regardless of reason, is an unholy conflict of interest. I'm really hoping that IP is investigated for the possibility of comingling funds from the LLC/Inc to personal accounts. I hope the judge and the legal beagles really dig into the owners/shareholders of PF to ensure that IP, his agents, hiers, assigns, relations of any sort, business parnters, affiliates and anyone related in any way to him are discovered and this is denied.

In any event, I think the little city of Pahrump is the one that's going to pay for this...really bad. Before FS, it was a map dot on the blacktop. If FS goes away, and PF fails (which at those fees I think it will), then Pahrump will return to it's roots.

[LV_G22]

I believe LVDF proceeded with foreclosure actions due to the default to the loan agreement with FS. The default could have been cured to avoid the foreclosure. Not sure what that amount could have been, usually means becoming current with the terms of the loan, plus added expenses for the cure. I think the principle amount was @6 or 7 million. In order to stave off the foreclosure FS LLC filed for bankruptcy protection. It appears the FS LLC protects the owners personal assets from liabilities of the LLC entity. During the @2 decades of operation the owner may have paid/transferred to himself handsomely. I don't know what those amounts may add up to. He is playing the long chess game, using the system that is available to him. After, and if, the sale goes through, anything is possible. It's all very complicated, but it appears he wants to keep the property, by any and all means necessary. The business may not be worth much, but the property must be worth @11 or 12 million, maybe.

Under the plan filed with the court, the new company, PrairieFire (Nevada PF, LLC), pays $24M and owns everything, including the land....If accepted, Front Sight is gone and IP owns nothing.

[seeedgar]

Nope. PrairieFire is described as an affiliate of FS DIP LLC.

FS DIP LLC was formed to provide DIP (Debtor in Possession) Financing during the bankruptcy and FS DIP LLC filed with the court, under oath, a statement that they were NOT affiliated with FS or IP.

[ATTACH]1118468[/ATTACH]

If you were an unrelated company that decided to scoop up Front Sight from bankruptcy by putting up $24Million - wouldn't you keep IP on as a consultant at least during the transition - especially as they are still trying to fight LVDF in court over an $11M item. A consultant is completely under the control of PrairieFire, not the other way around. IP built and ran the place for over 2 decades, you would want access to answer any questions during the transition.

From the court filings, it appears to be a completely separate entity interested in purchasing the Front Sight property and developing their own Firearms Training Center.....

If IP had access to $24M in investment, Front Sight never would have filed bankruptcy!

Just my 2 cents from reading and thinking about the documents.

Welcome all viewpoints.....

I believe LVDF proceeded with foreclosure actions due to the default to the loan agreement with FS. The default could have been cured to avoid the foreclosure. Not sure what that amount could have been, usually means becoming current with the terms of the loan, plus added expenses for the cure. I think the principle amount was @6 or 7 million. In order to stave off the foreclosure FS LLC filed for bankruptcy protection. It appears the FS LLC protects the owners personal assets from liabilities of the LLC entity. During the @2 decades of operation the owner may have paid/transferred to himself handsomely. I don't know what those amounts may add up to. He is playing the long chess game, using the system that is available to him. After, and if, the sale goes through, anything is possible. It's all very complicated, but it appears he wants to keep the property, by any and all means necessary. The business may not be worth much, but the property must be worth @11 or 12 million, maybe.

[SWalt]

Page 13 lists the objections including:
The Amended Plan provides for Piazza and PrairieFire to share any excess
value from the $15 million litigation reserve, as well as for Piazza to receive the benefit of a new consulting agreement with the Reorganized Debtor. There is no information, however, regarding the terms of the consulting agreement, including the compensation Piazza is to receive thereunder and for what period of time. Nor is there any information to support the basis by which Piazza is entitled to any value when unsecured creditors will not be paid in full. The Disclosure Statement must provide information to support the basis for Piazza’s retention of value under these circumstances.

And I though PrairieFire was sending out all those PR statements denying Piazza has anything to do with their future operations...

Or, the unsecured creditors are throwing everything up against the wall to see what sticks. Think of lawsuits as screaming matches. They seem to be claiming the disclosures do not disclose enough and to make sure they are paid before Piazza. Unsecured is unsecured though.

[LV_G22]

Interesting tidbits on pages 5-8 discussing business plans. PrairieFire is described as an "affiliate" of Piazza, and another line discusses the new debtor engaging Piazza "into a consulting agreement"?

Nope. PrairieFire is described as an affiliate of FS DIP LLC.

FS DIP LLC was formed to provide DIP (Debtor in Possession) Financing during the bankruptcy and FS DIP LLC filed with the court, under oath, a statement that they were NOT affiliated with FS or IP.

DIP_STATEMENT.pdf

If you were an unrelated company that decided to scoop up Front Sight from bankruptcy by putting up $24Million - wouldn't you keep IP on as a consultant at least during the transition - especially as they are still trying to fight LVDF in court over an $11M item. A consultant is completely under the control of PrairieFire, not the other way around. IP built and ran the place for over 2 decades, you would want access to answer any questions during the transition.

From the court filings, it appears to be a completely separate entity interested in purchasing the Front Sight property and developing their own Firearms Training Center.....

If IP had access to $24M in investment, Front Sight never would have filed bankruptcy!

Just my 2 cents from reading and thinking about the documents.

Welcome all viewpoints.....

[-hanko]

Page 13 lists the objections including:


And I though PrairieFire was sending out all those PR statements denying Piazza has anything to do with their future operations...

Just like Dr. Piazza...a bunch of **cking liars.