Adventures in becoming a better shooter: Newbie progress journal!

[captain_qwijibo]

So for background, I've been occasionally going to the range with friends (once or twice a year) for years, and have fired a wide variety of firearms but never really strongly focused on grouping or anything, just having fun.

Buuuuut now that I have my own gun, I decided it's time to make sure that I am the best shooter I can be for all practical purposes. The best way for me to track my progress will be keeping a journal, and I'm going to do it here in hopes that the experienced shooters out there might occasionally be willing to toss me some advice.


Gun: HK P2000 V2 9mm
Shooter: Right hand dominant, left eye dominant (yayyyyyy )

I decided that until someone tells me that it's a bad plan, I'll concentrate on shooting at 7 yards until I can consistently put full mags through the 10-ring with the iron sights only, then I'll train with the laser on (zeroed for being just barely visible above the front sight at 7 yards) and make sure that my performance is at least the same. After that, I'll move to 10 yards and repeat.





So with no further ado, the journal starts now!

Day 1:

Ammo: WWB 124gr

The first mag's worth of ammo I sent downrange was… well, they all hit the paper, at least.



Obviously not a great showing by any stretch of the imagination, but to be fair to myself it was my first time with this particular gun and I found that the grip I was using for dry fire practice actually wasn't wonderful for live-firing with. I spent almost the entire session making slight changes to grip and stance.


I shot a total of 200 rounds of target ammo, with the last magazine's worth looking like so:



Still an unacceptable amount of lateral drift, but clearly a substantial amount of improvement over the first mag worth of ammo.



To end the first day, I decided to send some defensive rounds downrange due to the understanding that different ammo handles differently, and I should have at least some experience with what I am using to protect my home.


Final magazine of the day, Federal HST 147gr:





Thoughts:

John Wick I am not, but I'm at least confident I can hit the target. The left-of-target drift is frustrating, but I suspect that as I loosen up and become more comfortable it'll be a bit easier to control, since if the pistol correction charts are to be believed, this might be a grip problem.

I'll be doing a lot of dry firing over the next few days, and likely going back to the range next week.


Any constructive input is appreciated!

[IVC]

Good for you for deciding to get better and documenting the progress. Don't beat yourself up about the groups - they look very typical for someone who rarely shoots and it's a good start. The key is knowing what to work on, so here it goes...

Keep working on 7 yards. That's a good distance. Your problem is clearly the trigger control. Grip can be a contributing factor, but at slow fire it's all about the trigger. You have to learn to press the trigger without disturbing the sights.

Dry fire will help here, but I would like to warn you that you're currently working on the aspect of shooting that comes primarily from the recoil and noise, which is precisely what you don't have in dry fire. Sure you need to be able to press the trigger correctly in dry fire, however it won't immediately translate to live fire. The anticipation is what you have to overcome, and that requires live fire. Make sure your trigger press is decent at home, i.e., sights don't move as you go through the pull, but then do live fire until you can keep the gun steady through the trigger pull. Until then, use dry fire sparingly - build good habits and make sure you can keep the gun steady.

As you get better, don't move to 10 yards, get a timer and start working on time. There is a whole new set of skills that you'll acquire once you add time constraints into the mix. However, that's a topic for some other time. Enjoy your practice.

[NYC2SoCal]

Agree with what IVC said. Regarding the timer, I would not introduce the timer until you can get consistent shots on target.

I would also turn the laser off. Use your iron sights, and focus on the front sight.

[captain_qwijibo]

Good for you for deciding to get better and documenting the progress. Don't beat yourself up about the groups - they look very typical for someone who rarely shoots and it's a good start. The key is knowing what to work on, so here it goes...

Keep working on 7 yards. That's a good distance. Your problem is clearly the trigger control. Grip can be a contributing factor, but at slow fire it's all about the trigger. You have to learn to press the trigger without disturbing the sights.

Dry fire will help here, but I would like to warn you that you're currently working on the aspect of shooting that comes primarily from the recoil and noise, which is precisely what you don't have in dry fire. Sure you need to be able to press the trigger correctly in dry fire, however it won't immediately translate to live fire. The anticipation is what you have to overcome, and that requires live fire. Make sure your trigger press is decent at home, i.e., sights don't move as you go through the pull, but then do live fire until you can keep the gun steady through the trigger pull. Until then, use dry fire sparingly - build good habits and make sure you can keep the gun steady.

As you get better, don't move to 10 yards, get a timer and start working on time. There is a whole new set of skills that you'll acquire once you add time constraints into the mix. However, that's a topic for some other time. Enjoy your practice.

This is great feedback, thank you!

[captain_qwijibo]

Agree with what IVC said. Regarding the timer, I would not introduce the timer until you can get consistent shots on target.

I would also turn the laser off. Use your iron sights, and focus on the front sight.

Right on. I'm not using the laser yet, other than the one mag I used to zero it in. I want to only train with it once I'm very happy with my iron sights usage, because I don't want to rely on it.

[Snoopy47]

The biggest benefit the OP is going to find with tracking his progress, is when he eventually can coach himself, and tries a new stance, hold, finger placement, etc.... all in quest for improvement he will know if the change he made merits continuing.

The hardest part is acknowledging when you are doing something counter productive. Stopping yourself, and figuring it out.

**********

For me, dry fire is more about re-enforcing FRONT SIGHT FOCUS just as much as "trigger" control. When you can see where that front sight twitches is when dramatic improvements can start to be made.

[scotty99]

[rodralig]

When I am in "accuracy mode" in dry practice - I have a 1-inch target at about 10-ft.

Absolutely agree that it is more difficult than it sounds. Especially for eyes like mine that is having difficulty getting a sharp focus on the front sight.


_

[NorthBay Shooter]

you mentioned your grip being different in live fire than it was in dry fire. That should be a big take away for you. You should be gripping the gun hard enough that if your hands are not getting tired after 10 minutes you are not doing it right. Recoil management is all about grip. There are a lot of folks smarter and better than me to give advice so I will not go into all the different aspects. However, your week hand should be gripping the gun like it owes you money. You should feel the pressure in your forearms not just your hands. If you are doing it right, the gun should settle right back to the exact sight picture you had on the prior shot without you having to help get the gun back on target.

[rodralig]

You should be gripping the gun hard enough that if your hands are not getting tired after 10 minutes you are not doing it right. Recoil management is all about grip. There are a lot of folks smarter and better than me to give advice so I will not go into all the different aspects. However, your week hand should be gripping the gun like it owes you money.

True! If your hands are not tiring in a few minutes of dry fire, you are not being honest with yourself.

That said, although there is a general consensus on gripping the gun hard (mostly from the action shooting GMs/champions) - I have found several schools of thought on how to accomplish this. One needs to find what works for himself/herself (I find that grip, too, is a personal thing)...

1. Mike Seeklander
2. Ben Stoeger/Hwansik Kim
3. Robert Vogel
4. Mike Hughes/Lt. Larry Yatch (SEAL/ret)
5. Others more...

Each has a different nuance to gripping the pistol. Personally, I use a hybrid of Vogel and Hughes...

Just Google their YouTube videos that go into detail of how they grip the pistol...


_

[NorthBay Shooter]

True! If your hands are not tiring in a few minutes of dry fire, you are not being honest with yourself.

That said, although there is a general consensus on gripping the gun hard (mostly from the action shooting GMs/champions) - I have found several schools of thought on how to accomplish this. One needs to find what works for himself/herself (I find that grip, too, is a personal thing)...

1. Mike Seeklander
2. Ben Stoeger/Hwansik Kim
3. Robert Vogel
4. Mike Hughes/Lt. Larry Yatch (SEAL/ret)
5. Others more...

Each has a different nuance to gripping the pistol. Personally, I use a hybrid of Vogel and Hughes...

Just Google their YouTube videos that go into detail of how they grip the pistol...


_

We are on the same page. I would add Ron Avery and TPC. I have trained with TPC, Ben and Hwansik. Hwansik had said many times, he did not understand the weak hand grip until he asked Ben to show him. Hwansik griped the gun strong hand (right hand) and Ben put his left hand on the gun. Hwansik said this was a game changer. I asked Hwansik about this when we were in a training together (he still takes classes, FYI). During a break we went to the safe area, I gripped my gun strong hand and he put his left on on mine. He almost broke my fingers.

For the OP, you should be doing dry fire in short sessions so you can use proper grip and not get tired. Remember you need to be honest with yourself in dry fire. Go slow and do each rep as perfect as possible. Good grip, good draw, good presentation, sight picture, trigger pull, good transitions, good reloads, etc. Everyone can learn to do a .80 first shot to a five yard target (in dry fire). You need to be able to do it when there are bullets in the gun and the hit matters.

Good luck.

[rodralig]

Everyone can learn to do a .80 first shot to a five-yard target (in dry fire). You need to be able to do it when there are bullets in the gun and the hit matters.

Good luck.

I just clocked 0.78 to the A-zone live round at 5-yards in the recent Steven Anderson's class...
While the others were clocking at 0.70 or less...


Weren't you supposed to be joining us for that class? (I am currently drafting an AAR)

The next class is tentative for Oct 23-25. The first two days are a normal class, while the last day is a "coached" session in a local match.



_

[smak28]

My recommendation is to take classes. Reason is you would need to learn the fundamentals of shooting, because you should be able to shoot ANY pistol accurately and you will accomplish this by someone first teaching you the fundamentals. Secondly, your SAFE HANDLING will increase substantially as you barely learn safe handling shooting paper targets in a stall. It should be muscle memory where you don't have to think about what you should do to handle a gun safely. Classes and competition shooting will take your sjooting skills and safe handling to a level you will never accomplish just shooting paper targets in a stall.

[Snoopy47]

It should be muscle memory where you don't have to think about what you should do to handle a gun safely. Classes and competition shooting will take your sjooting skills and safe handling to a level you will never accomplish just shooting paper targets in a stall.

I want to echo this.

When I dry fire I set up my area like a safe table, and try to handle the gun as I would on the line at a match.

It would be too easy to fall into personal home laziness with dummy rounds on the draw, rack, trigger finger placement, re-holster, etc........

[NorthBay Shooter]

I just clocked 0.78 to the A-zone live round at 5-yards in the recent Steven Anderson's class...
While the others were clocking at 0.70 or less...


Weren't you supposed to be joining us for that class? (I am currently drafting an AAR)

The next class is tentative for Oct 23-25. The first two days are a normal class, while the last day is a "coached" session in a local match.



_

Rod, was this the class at the end of April that was scheduled at the same time as Golden Bullet? Wow, I was not sure that class was going to happen when everything started to cancel. I did talk to Roundeye about going. I am in the SF Bay so would have been a drive (and hotel) for me and with the stay at home stuff, my wife would have shot me. Sorry I missed it. Even more sorry as I listened to Steve's podcast this weekend with the recap from a class in OR. Everyone is having too much fun shooting with him. Looking forward to reading your AAR.

I really want to train with him. Not sure if he is going to make it to Richmond this year. Did the sign-up for the class post yet?

In regards to the draw first shot, anything that starts with .7 is awesome. I have never been lower than .82 on a 5 yard A zone. In one class they broke down the draw stroke in the parts. I was able to do a .65 with my hand starting on the gun in the holster. I need my reaction time to be lower in order to get faster. I also may need to be a few years younger...LOL