Problems w/ 200g plated FP for 45 ACP

[runway1]

Bullets are Berry's 200g FP. These are seated to about 1.155 COL with mixed range brass. I know 1.155 sounds short, but several manuals show that length and it feeds best, as I've tried 1.180 and 1.200.

Check the pic. Two problems:

1. Obvious buckling every few rounds. I increased the bell trying not to ease it in but it didn't help. What's up with that?

2. Plating is wrinkling right at the brass mouth. This sometimes cause raised material that seems to aggravate FTF.

What's up with this? Any suggestions?

P.S. Any other plated, 200g bullets you can suggest? Havong too many problems with these.

[krwada]

Hogdon has the COAL at 1.225"

Plus, it looks like you may also have too much crimp.

[stilly]

Hogdon has the COAL at 1.225"

Plus, it looks like you may also have too much crimp.

YEAH.

You buckle brass better check your crimp on pistol loads.
If you had a Lee FCD you would not have this problem, BUT, If you just lightened up your crimp a bit you ALSO would not have this problem.

At least that is MY input.

Are you shooting out of a 1911?

Try making some with an OAL of 1.249-1.253... See if that is better. I prefer 1.249ISH sized because my 1911s LOVE them...

[runway1]

Sierra and Lee both show 1.155 COL. Also, I've bracketed four lengths, this is the correct COL for my Sig 1911. Let's forget that, it was intended as info only.

Question is on the buckling and the wrinkling on the plating. I increased the crimp because a fellow I was shooting with mentioned I should be at .469 and I was measuring about .471/.472. I tightened up the crimp. Maybe that's it??

[krwada]

.469

Sierra and Lee both show 1.155 COL. Also, I've bracketed four lengths, this is the correct COL for my Sig 1911. Let's forget that, it was intended as info only.

Question is on the buckling and the wrinkling on the plating. I increased the crimp because a fellow I was shooting with mentioned I should be at .469 and I was measuring about .471/.472. I tightened up the crimp. Maybe that's it??

.469 is way too much!

You are only supposed to remove the flare from the case with a taper crimp.

I made the same mistake when I first started loading .45 ACP

[stilly]

My books are outside. Am I wrong here?

I THOUGHT that I make my .45 ACP to 1.249 but 1.155 is short in comparison... But hey if it fits for you. Then keep it.

BTW, those lengths in the book are usually the SHORTEST you should go. If you pull out your rounds a bit and make them longer you will be dropping the pressure slightly and giving yourself more case volume/more air inside. I think it might make you shoot a tad slower, but no worries. Better safer is my thought...

So remake some rounds but lighten up on the crimp. I mean, half the guys in the thread telling you to do that can't be ALL that wrong...

[ojisan]

Are you seating and crimping in one step or separately?

[runway1]

Are you seating and crimping in one step or separately?

One step. RCBS die. Looks like chasing .469 may have been a mistake.

[nahpungnome]

Are you roll crimping? I had that issue with my Hornady seat/roll crimp die when I was trying to get a good crimp without realizing I shouldn't roll at all . I've taper crimped (separate Lyman crimp die) down to .469 without issues, however I backed it out to .470.

I also stopped using FP because it requires further seating to feed somewhat reliably in all 3 of my 45 acp pistols. I used Xtreme 225gr FP and my pistols didn't like it too much. I was afraid to seat lower than 1.180 since there wasn't too much data for the Xtreme FP out there.

[ojisan]

The problem when you seat and crimp in the same step is that the case is being squeezed down tighter and tighter on the bullet while the bullet is still moving down in the case.
This leads to wrinkled / collapsed cases and scraped / damaged bullets.
Yes I did it this way for years, with much aggravation along the way, until I got a progressive press and separated the operations.

Even if you have to single stage load, try seating and crimping as two operations.
You will get a more exact and consistent seat depth for the bullets and a repeatable quality crimp.
Your reject rate will also go way down.

[runway1]

.469 is way too much!

You are only supposed to remove the flare from the case with a taper crimp.

I made the same mistake when I first started loading .45 ACP

So remake some rounds but lighten up on the crimp. I mean, half the guys in the thread telling you to do that can't be ALL that wrong...

Ok. Sounds like a plan. I'll load another batch and go back to just removing the bell.

[JagerDog]

Yup...too much crimp it appears. Back it of so it doesn't crimp at all. If you get no buckles then you know it has nothing to do with seating. If you had no issue at .472, then did at .469...uhh...

Roll crimps are going to be case length sensitive. Taper (or FCD) will give more flexibility.

[Bastard]

The problem when you seat and crimp in the same step is that the case is being squeezed down tighter and tighter on the bullet while the bullet is still moving down in the case.
This leads to wrinkled / collapsed cases and scraped / damaged bullets.
Yes I did it this way for years, with much aggravation along the way, until I got a progressive press and separated the operations.

Even if you have to single stage load, try seating and crimping as two operations.
You will get a more exact and consistent seat depth for the bullets and a repeatable quality crimp.
Your reject rate will also go way down.

^^^this

you are crimping too early - the only time that I have seen a seat crimp die work as advertised is if all the brass is the same length and the die is actually set properly. back the seating die out so that it doesn't crimp at all and then get a taper crimp die to pretty much just remove the bell.

[stilly]

Are you roll crimping? I had that issue with my Hornady seat/roll crimp die when I was trying to get a good crimp without realizing I shouldn't roll at all . I've taper crimped (separate Lyman crimp die) down to .469 without issues, however I backed it out to .470.

I also stopped using FP because it requires further seating to feed somewhat reliably in all 3 of my 45 acp pistols. I used Xtreme 225gr FP and my pistols didn't like it too much. I was afraid to seat lower than 1.180 since there wasn't too much data for the Xtreme FP out there.

I do not think it is possible to roll crimp a .45

OP- When you seat and crimp in one operation (like many dies and Lee dies do) then what is happening is that while you are STILL SEATING the bullet, it is crimping the round, at SOME POINT the crimp will STOP letting the bullet go down and it will grab hold and ride the bullet down and thus buckle, WHICH is why some folks say to back off or to do the crimp and bullet seating in two different operations. I think that if you can just back off you will be in good shape. I seat and crimp in the same operation and I rarely have any issues. Okay, I seldom rarely have any issues. So yeah there ya go. :\

The problem when you seat and crimp in the same step is that the case is being squeezed down tighter and tighter on the bullet while the bullet is still moving down in the case.
This leads to wrinkled / collapsed cases and scraped / damaged bullets.
Yes I did it this way for years, with much aggravation along the way, until I got a progressive press and separated the operations.

Even if you have to single stage load, try seating and crimping as two operations.
You will get a more exact and consistent seat depth for the bullets and a repeatable quality crimp.
Your reject rate will also go way down.

OMG! It is the old "Make the post right after reading their mind and saying it before they say it" trick...

[Bumslie]

I do not think it is possible to roll crimp a .45

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/169099/rcbs-roll-crimp-seater-die-45-acp-45-gap

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/187392/hornady-custom-grade-new-dimension-nitride-3-die-set-45-acp-45-auto-rim-45-win-mag?cm_vc=ProductFinding