Reloading newbie seeking die advice

[Spyguy]

Background & Requirements:
I have formal education in mechanical engineering and informal training in machining, but I'm new to reloading.

I would like to reload the following calibers:

Pistol: 9mm (Glock), .45ACP (Glock)
Rifle: .223 Rem (semi-auto), .308 Win (semi-auto). Eventually would like to do 6.5 Creedmoor (semi-auto).

My goal for pistol reloads is simply standard-grade target ammo. My goal for rifle reloads is initially standard-grade target, with the ability to make match-grade later on. I don't have money to blow (budget-minded), but I would rather pay more for a quality tool that will do the job well and last long (buy once, cry once).

I did buy a Lee Classic Turret Press (with some extra turret plates) recently because it was a killer deal and because I had read that it was a decent press for getting started. (As I move up in experience, I'll probably get a high-quality single-stage for the match rifle loads, and perhaps a progressive for pistol.) Between the Lee press and Lyman's 49th Ed, that's all I have so far in terms of specific reloading gear. I also have precision calipers & micrometers for my machining work, so that part is covered.

So help me get started. I read Randall's excellent stickies on reloading pistol ammo and match rifle ammo, but would like more specific advice for the type of reloading I'll be doing.

For example, I'd prefer to invest in good dies now and was considering the Dillon carbide pistol dies. But then I read that the Dillon resizing die has a more flared mouth (because they're designed to be used with Dillon's progressive presses) and may not be the best choice for resizing cases fired from Glock pistols because of possible case bulge problems. What I've read seems to suggest that Lee's carbide dies have a smaller entry flare and would be a better choice for sizing out the case bulge. But there are some people who say the Lee die quality is not as good (and by "quality," I mean internal smoothness of the die; I'm not as much concerned about external appearances, although I do appreciate finely-crafted tools). Btw, for the Dillon pistol 3-die sets, where is the expander die?

(FTR, I already plan to order Hornady Sure-Loc die locking rings, so the lock rings on either the Dillon or the Lee (or RCBS, etc.) are not a factor.)

For rifle dies, I'd want to get the Redding Type-S Match Bushings for eventual match-grade loading, but I don't think it would be appropriate to also use those for loading "blaster" ammo. Or don't I have to worry about wear & tear? If it's recommended to have one set for match loads and another set for standard loads, then I'll put off buying the Redding Type-S dies for now. Then the question is, what standard load dies to buy? Since I'm loading only for semi-auto rifles at this time, I know I need to fully size each case (not just the neck). But then there's the lively debate about standard full-length sizing dies vs small base dies. My understanding is that Dillon's rifle dies are a good choice because, while not technically "small base" dies, they do full-length resize to the minimum spec'd dimensions. Thoughts?

Finally, let's talk about shoulder bump. I've never read a solid explanation about "bumping" but my impression is that it refers to using the FL resizing die to push the shoulder down a small amount to maintain the proper length from the shoulder to the case head. My question is, how do presses set the shoulder bump height? As I understand it, the press is stroked until either it hits a stop or it passes the cam-over point. The head-to-shoulder distance is then set by the locked position of the resizing die in the press. But is the shellholder supposed to contact the base of the resizing die? Because if so, then it seems to me that the shoulder bump would be set by the physical dimensions of the die and the shellholder (with their manufacturing tolerances being a consideration). I know there are competition shellholder sets to fine-tune the bump height. But are these supposed to contact the base of the resizing die, or are they just used to dial-in the shoulder length without having to reset the position of the die?

[stevied]

Lee dies good quality. RCBS is another brand that is really good for the price. I think expensive match dies are a waste of money. I can load sub moa rounds for my garand with standard rcbs dies. I have a set of redding dies which are very well made but the only reason. I bought them is because they are the only ones which are the correct chamber for the k31. You can grab a collet die if you don't want to full length size every time.

[socom2shooter]

Rcbs carbide 3 die sets. For pistol anyway

[thenodnarb]

when you shoulder bump you don't set the die to hit the shell plate. One way to do it i've read, is to use a lighter to coat the shoulder with soot. Adjust the FL die to come close to the shoulder without touching, then run the case into the die. If the shoulder is still coated, adjust the die down 1/16th turn and run it into the die again. Do this until the soot reveals that the FL die touched shoulder. That will give you a .001 or .002 bump.
Of course this will likely only work for 1 particular chamber. So if you have multiple guns in the same chamber, keep the cases seperate.

[popeye4]

You don't want to shoulder bump for semi-auto rifles, you need to full length size. You may also want to consider small base dies as well, as they size all the way to the base (standard dies do not).

I have no complaints about Dillon, RCBS, or Redding dies and have used all three with success. I have the Redding S bushing die for .308. Don't worry about using one for your "blasting" ammo; as long as you clean your brass first you shouldn't wear them out. I would also suggest that you make all your ammo to equal levels of precision, there is no point to making crappy ammo at any time (though you may choose to use less expensive bullets). My practice ammo is no different than my match ammo.

Check out "Handloading for Competition" by Glen Zedicker, especially if you are loading for service-type rifles. It is good reading even if you aren't going to compete in highpower. You can get it here: http://zediker.com/books/handloading/hlmain.html

[J-cat]

To answer your first question, Glocked brass is dimensionally larger than brass fired in something like a 1911. If you try to size it in a standard die you may run into a problem where the entry into the carbide sizer is too abrupt and will start to shave brass off the case wall. So Dillon made the radius bigger but now you have a problem because that die does not size the brass enough to reliably feed into a match chamber. What to do? Redding makes a push through die they call the GRX. It sizes the case to "fired in a standard chamber" specs so your standard die can finish the job without shaving brass.

In regards to your rifle dies, a small base die is desirable for a semi auto because it sizes the base and shoulder an additional .001" to give you more reliability with a dirty chamber.

There are two ways to bump the shoulder for a semi-auto: 1. Redding Competition Shell Holders or 2. Backing off the die using feeler gauges.

The competition shell holder route is the easiest and most accurate. You screw the die against the shell holder and forget it. The shell holders are calibrated to give you .010", .008", .006", .004", or .002" less shoulder bump than your standard shell holder. You take a case, lube it, and size it using the +.010" shell holder, then try chambering it. It should not chamber. So then you try the smaller sizes until it chambers with some bolt face drag. That's your zero clearance. So then you need to bump the shoulder an additional .004" for semi-auto use.

In my rifles, the +.008" shell holder gives me zero clearance, so I use the +.006" for bolt actions and +.004" for my AR.

The feeler gauge method: you screw the die against a feeler gauge sitting on top of the shell holder. The problem with that is you're incorporating press linkage slop and press frame spring into the shoulder bumping equation. Can't really get an accurate shoulder bump that way.

[Bumslie]

Welcome to the addiction.

[Cowboy T]

You're not going to go wrong with any brand of die set. For semi-auto reloading, you'll want to do full-length sizing. I chose to go with Lee dies for both rifle and handgun because all the die sets are good, and Lee was low-cost. A buddy swears by his RCBS dies as well and also gets excellent results.

[MrElectric03]

I prefer dillon dies. Due to the price difference though I only have one set. I use rcbs carbide dies mostly and get the from ebay. I've gotten them anywhere from $15-$35 shipped. I've got a couple Hornady sets but am not completely thrilled with them.

[huckberry668]

Glock bulges are what you want to look for. Not every Glock does it so check yours. I wouldn't put hot loads thru Glocks that bulges cases. it's a 'ka-boom' waiting to happen in my opinion.

Push-thru die is only for 40SW and 10mm cuz their rims are same or smaller than the case body. 45acp and 9x19 have rims larger than the case body and won't push thru. As far as i know, no push-thru dies are made for 9x19 and 45acp.

bumping shoulder can be done with standard FL sizing die. You'd need to know the should datum line to the case head dimension first. It's easier if you have a pair of this:

http://www.shootingtimes.com/2011/01/03/newproducts_hornadylnl_092407/

Shoulder bumping is to reduce headspace tolerances for accuracy with the reliability benefits of FL sized cases and reduce overworking the brass so they'd last longer. I bump the shoulders down by around .002". You'll need to find out the chamber length of your rifle first.

I used to neck size my bolt gun brass. Now I full length size them all with .002" bump for reliability. Doesn't seem to affect my half MOA rifles' accuracy anyway.

deprime a case fired out of your gun. use the comparator to measure the shoulder datum line to the head distance let's call 'x'. Set your die to size .002" under x can be accomplished this way,

1. screw the die down to touching the shell holders on top of the stroke.
2. lower the ram and back the die out by half of a turn.
3. lube a brass, size it, measure, turn die down a little (1/32 of a turn gives you .002"), size and adjust till you get it. confirm setting with a few more brass.
4. this setting only works on 1 headstamp. so separate your brass by headstamp and adjust sizing die to each headstamp if you want all of them to be bumped the same.

I remember the old days when I didn't have a set of comparators... I used a candle and smoked the shoulder and neck area of the brass. put it thru the sizing die till the shoulder is touched. turn the die down by 1/32 of a turn (.002") till it loads perfectly into the rifle w/o effort.

this is only the beginning... but it's fun and a whole entire world on its own. come back when you have questions about precision loads. have fun.

[sjb269]

You have to come to terms with what it is you want to accomplish.
I don't shoot competition, however, I do seek sub MOA accuracy from my rifles. First and foremost, I reload to save money, control my ammo supply and as closely as possible, duplicate OTC match ammo. I have achieved this.
I full length re size every time because it is important for me to be able to pass ammo to my shooting buddies and allow them to shoot my ammo through their rifles and vice versa. Am I leaving fractions of MOA on the table doing this? probably.
I would have to be bench resting to realize the difference. Hence, I don't bench rest! In my opinion, to be an effective rifleman, one needs to be "accurate" from all kinds of improvised shooting positions. This type of practical shooting will not expose that 1/8th MOA gain by painstakingly squeezing more accuracy out of your reloads… IMO.
As for pistol, I think your over thinking things. At pistol distances, you'd have to be a heck of a shot to realize the gains by getting one set of dies over the other.

[ArmedCMT]

tl;dr


Just kidding Congrats on taking the plunge!

In regards to your "Glocked" pistol brass, you could use the redding die or you can use the Lee kit but youll also need the factory crimp die which is not included.
I dont shoot 45 but Ive read that since its not a high pressure round you dont really run into the bulged brass issue.


Id highly recommend attending one of the reloading clinics near you.

[jonzer77]

tl;dr





Just kidding Congrats on taking the plunge!



In regards to your "Glocked" pistol brass, you could use the redding die or you can use the Lee kit but youll also need the factory crimp die which is not included.

I dont shoot 45 but Ive read that since its not a high pressure round you dont really run into the bulged brass issue.





Id highly recommend attending one of the reloading clinics near you.

The lee factory crimp die isn't necessary and is a waste of money IMHO.

[JMP]

For rifle, if you know you will be getting Redding type-S neck sizing dies, you ought to just buy them know since they'll last. For cheap rifle dies, I'd go with RCBS. Avoid Hornady rifle dies like the plague. Of course, a full Redding 3-piece comp set plus bushings runs you several hundred and may or may not be needed for a semiauto. Semiautomatic precision is an oxymoron. I'd not get a 6.5CD in a semiautomatic. At $1.50 per case, it's a bit pricey to fling around and damage, destroy, or lose a piece with a semi. However, if you are willing to use Hornady brass, then 6.5 CD is quite a bit cheaper.

[Spyguy]

The lee factory crimp die isn't necessary and is a waste of money IMHO.

It was my understanding that crimping was strongly recommended for semi-auto rifles.