Nervous about testing 9mm Major Loads

[jonzer77]

Guess there's not too many open division shooters on this page.

It still doesn't negate the fact that you are going straight to a major load. These loads need to be worked up to.

[uhlan1]

Guess there's not too many open division shooters on this page.

Nice. Dude you asked our opinions. We gave them. We're kinda a "safe reloading crowd" or perhaps "wimpy" by your definition. Even you stated you were nervous. If you only want the answers you want to hear, post your question on Brian Enos, though many there would appear to be nervous over your choice of powder as well.

Good luck to ya.

[sdxd619]

That load seems kind of high. With IMR, I've used about 4.0 to 4.2gr with 115gr 9mm.

[JaeOne3345]

That load seems kind of high. With IMR, I've used about 4.0 to 4.2gr with 115gr 9mm.

Major.

[JaeOne3345]

OP: Don't waste your time asking niche competition **** on Calguns. I learned that a long time ago.

Go to Enos and ask around.

[JaeOne3345]

Have you considered Autocomp or HS6? Or some of VV powders.

7625 can work but there are better powders for the job IMO.

The match master has a shorty barrel doesn't it?

[CalTeacher]

You are talking about full custom guns. A couple of questions...

1. How do these competition shooters know what their firearms are capable of ... (safe chamber pressure)
2. Do these folks carefully work up the loads from published to these major loads ... while carefully looking at pressure and chrono data?
3. How much, on average, do these firearms cost? You stated $5000. What is the reasonable range on the cost of these guns?
4. I suppose using an off-the-shelf Glock would not be a good idea for this type of shooting no?

Talk about experimental ... uncharted territory.

Thanks;
krwada

Sometimes the guns are not full custom guns. A lot of STI's and Glocks run 9 major just fine, though I always see aftermarket barrels on the Glocks because of the need for a threaded barrel for the comp. These guns have to be tuned, for sure, but 9 major is actually very common with Open division shooters.

Ok, I'll answer your questions one by one.
1. There's a number of ways to get a rough estimate of safety. Measure case head expansion. Send a round in to a powder manufacturer for testing. Chrono. Regardless of which method you use, you must work up the load with a chronograph. There's no way to be completely sure of anything unless you have the round pressure tested, but most of us don't do that with any of our loads. We're all sort of guessing about the actual pressure of our ammo.
2. Refer to ^^^
3. The sky is the limit on an Open gun. You can rock a G17 with a slide mount red dot, permanently attached comp/aftermarket barrel, and big sticks, or you can have an SVI built to order and start shooting it $5-6k and 18 months later. Shooting open is usually not cheap. Pick your poison and practice.
4. 9 major may or may not work in a stock Glock. Stock Glock 9mm barrels offer plenty of support, but Open Glocks with comps have to be sprung correctly. Shooting 9 major without a comp would be...interesting...and would likely require a heavier recoil spring without a comp.

Disclaimer, I am not an Open Glock shooter, nor do I claim to be an expert on this matter. I am but a lowly Single Stack nerd who shoots big, heavy, slow moving projectiles.

[jonzer77]

OP: Don't waste your time asking niche competition **** on Calguns. I learned that a long time ago.

Go to Enos and ask around.

I guess this could be mentioned once again but any max or major loads should be worked up to while watching for pressure signs. You don't just pick a recipe online and try it without working up to it. As long as the gun can handle it then I don't see an issue shooting major loads in 9mm.

[rm1911]

9mm major is actually pretty common in open division and can be safely loaded, but not with this powder. I know people who shoot it in $5k S_I race guns and in their open Glocks (usually KKM barrels). The game (USPSA) is played with minimum power floors and it's all part of the competition. Let's not start calling people names when you don't fully comprehend 9mm major loads and the reason people load 9mm to such velocity. 9mm can be safely loaded, but is not for the faint of heart. Loads must be worked up carefully with the aid of a chrono.

I'm sure you can shoot 9mm major, but if a guy is going to spend $5k on a pistol to do it, then I'd gather he's well experienced enough already to do it. and besides, that was the whole thing with 38 super anyways, that you can make major a whole lot easier with 125-147 grain bullets. 38 super is a long time standard round, well documented and tons of safe usage in major factor.

starting out with a 9mm load that hot IS foolish. and 9mm major is really pushing the round to its limits and ought to be done by a very experienced shooter and guns specifically designed to do it. and my point about major was just that, that it's an arbitrary number and normal 9mm, maybe 9mm +p which is safe in any modern gun, is an effective SD round, especially today with the specialty bullets.

the advantage of 9mm bullets is that the grip is narrower and with lighter bullets less recoil. and higher pressures will help the comp work better. I get all that. there might be better ways to achieve it, and do so safely.

if we're an overcautious reloading forum, then fine. kinda hard to enjoy our sport when your nickname is "stubby"

[krwada]

Open division shooting

Sometimes the guns are not full custom guns. A lot of STI's and Glocks run 9 major just fine, though I always see aftermarket barrels on the Glocks because of the need for a threaded barrel for the comp. These guns have to be tuned, for sure, but 9 major is actually very common with Open division shooters.

Ok, I'll answer your questions one by one.
1. There's a number of ways to get a rough estimate of safety. Measure case head expansion. Send a round in to a powder manufacturer for testing. Chrono. Regardless of which method you use, you must work up the load with a chronograph. There's no way to be completely sure of anything unless you have the round pressure tested, but most of us don't do that with any of our loads. We're all sort of guessing about the actual pressure of our ammo.
2. Refer to ^^^
3. The sky is the limit on an Open gun. You can rock a G17 with a slide mount red dot, permanently attached comp/aftermarket barrel, and big sticks, or you can have an SVI built to order and start shooting it $5-6k and 18 months later. Shooting open is usually not cheap. Pick your poison and practice.
4. 9 major may or may not work in a stock Glock. Stock Glock 9mm barrels offer plenty of support, but Open Glocks with comps have to be sprung correctly. Shooting 9 major without a comp would be...interesting...and would likely require a heavier recoil spring without a comp.

Disclaimer, I am not an Open Glock shooter, nor do I claim to be an expert on this matter. I am but a lowly Single Stack nerd who shoots big, heavy, slow moving projectiles.

Thanks for the reply

Unfortunately ... unless I move out of California ... for good ... I shall never be able to do this. I am most certain that those custom Open division firearm are completely not available because of the stupid frikkin roster!

[mjmagee67]

I have followed the formulas from a few veteran shooters but just the sight of a 9mm case almost full to the brim with powder as it comes around the shell plate makes me nervous. Should I be?
Here's what I'm doing:

IMR 7625- 7.0 grains
Sierra JHP- 125 grains
Seating- 1.18

It is quite obvious from reading many of the responses that people have no idea about 9mm major and competitive shooting. There is nothing wrong or dangerous about 9mm major, you just need the right gun and all is well.

As far as your load, you really need to get in contact with other 9mm major shooters and find out what they are doing. I would take their loads knock off 5% to 10% and work up using a chrono until you get the PF you want. I would also ask over on the Brian Enos forum, it's got much more knowledgeable people over there.

PS SR7625 is not a powder I hear about a lot in 9mm major! Tread lightly it may not respond well to the pressure and lack of volume in a 9mm case.

[Sunday]

Work up the load then there will be no Duh moments.

[CalTeacher]

I'm sure you can shoot 9mm major, but if a guy is going to spend $5k on a pistol to do it, then I'd gather he's well experienced enough already to do it. and besides, that was the whole thing with 38 super anyways, that you can make major a whole lot easier with 125-147 grain bullets. 38 super is a long time standard round, well documented and tons of safe usage in major factor.

starting out with a 9mm load that hot IS foolish. and 9mm major is really pushing the round to its limits and ought to be done by a very experienced shooter and guns specifically designed to do it. and my point about major was just that, that it's an arbitrary number and normal 9mm, maybe 9mm +p which is safe in any modern gun, is an effective SD round, especially today with the specialty bullets.

the advantage of 9mm bullets is that the grip is narrower and with lighter bullets less recoil. and higher pressures will help the comp work better. I get all that. there might be better ways to achieve it, and do so safely.

if we're an overcautious reloading forum, then fine. kinda hard to enjoy our sport when your nickname is "stubby"

But you don't need a custom gun to shoot 9 major...many do so with a Glock. And there are plenty of people who drop $5k on a gun with very little experience in reloading and/or competitive shooting.

As to the arbitrary pf, it's all part of the game. This is not self defense...it's a sport. There is a risk in shooting 9 major, sure, but there's a risk in shooting anything. The reason so many people shoot 9 major is because the brass is free and you can do it with a Glock. You can make major easier with .40, but you lose capacity and the ability to work the comp effectively compared to 38 Super or 9 major. You can make major a little easier with 38 super, but the brass is expensive. Weigh the risks, pick your poison, and practice.

Reloading 9 major really isn't as crazy as a lot people think, at least not with the right powder, but it also isn't something I'm interested in doing. If I'm going to shoot 9mm I'll do so in production or minor Single Stack. But most of that has to do with me not wanting to deal with a temperamental open gun. For now I stick with a Single Stack in 45 shooting major, or Limited shooting .40 major.

[CalTeacher]

Thanks for the reply

Unfortunately ... unless I move out of California ... for good ... I shall never be able to do this. I am most certain that those custom Open division firearm are completely not available because of the stupid frikkin roster!

That's what SSE is for!

[klewan]

Why do people do this?

I really do not get it!

It's a dick measuring deal. Who has the biggest. The "dicks" with the ruler knew a 9mm wouldn't measure up to a 45, so they told the 9mm guys to run gun destroying loads. And the 9mm "dicks" went right along....men are really stupid....