Help me understand plastic tip

[wireless]

I just picked up my AR for today and grabbed a box of ammo. I accidentally bought the Hornady 62gr plastic tipped ammo. I'm reading it's not the best for self defense and that it's primarily a varmint round, but on hornday's website I only see it going up to 55g for varmint round.

I'm reading that it shoots about 2900fps out of a 16in barrel. If 2700fps is safe to say the round will yaw then why isn't this ammo effective? It's similar to a hollow point is what I'm reading, but I'm not quite sure I believe it. It's very generic stuff like wikipedia.

I'll be picking up some 75gr/77gr OTM soon. Not sure which brand.

[NapalmCheese]

Dunno what bullet you have, Hornady doesn't list a 62 grain bullet in .224 caliber. They do list a 52 grain bullet.

There's more to wounding and terminal ballistics than tumbling. Some bullets expand into a mushroom, some completely break apart, some do some amount of both, some go straight through without any sort of deformation and some yaw and tumble but generally stick together.

[Fjold]

Varmint ammo is designed to completely fragment on impact so it creates a large surface wound on larger targets.

The plastic tip increases the ballistic coefficient of the bullet to extend the bullet's range and aids in the immediate expansion and fracturing of the bullet on impact.

[wireless]

So a person's arms and their denim would play a factor?

[Jasonaspears]

I just picked up my AR for today and grabbed a box of ammo. I accidentally bought the Hornady 62gr plastic tipped ammo. I'm reading it's not the best for self defense and that it's primarily a varmint round, but on hornday's website I only see it going up to 55g for varmint round.

I'm reading that it shoots about 2900fps out of a 16in barrel. If 2700fps is safe to say the round will yaw then why isn't this ammo effective? It's similar to a hollow point is what I'm reading, but I'm not quite sure I believe it. It's very generic stuff like wikipedia.

I'll be picking up some 75gr/77gr OTM soon. Not sure which brand.

Did you buy it for HD?

[wireless]

It's what the guy at the gun shot said would be best. Unfortunately, it's the only 20rds I have for my ar at the moment (just finished build today). Plenty of 9mm gold dot 115gr though.

[Jasonaspears]

Find some cheap .223 55gr brass or steel cased ammo. That's what almost every single AR will eat and shoot well.

[BruinGuy]

That Hornady ammo will be fine for home defense. You have to remember what a powerful round it is compared to pistol cartridges because of its velocity. I would avoid "penetrator" cartridges like m855 green tip, simply because you don't need more penetration in all likelihood, unless you're concerned about body armor, in which case I would have to wonder what scenario you foresee for HD.

However, you should get some basic fmj in various bullet weights and run a few (or many) hundred through the gun before trusting it for HD. You want to make sure everything functions well. Then when you choose your HD round, try it out too. I wouldn't use 75-77gr for HD. That's usually for precision shooting and often doesn't feed reliably because of the round's length.

[CEDaytonaRydr]

So a person's arms and their denim would play a factor?

Not enough to matter...

[NapalmCheese]

Not enough to matter...

Depending on the ammunition...

If there is a bad guy that wants to kill you, and if you have an AR at hand, and if you shoot that bad guy with a 40 grain varmint bullet, and if that bad guy is wearing a jacket, and if you hit that bad guy in the arm that is covering his chest with that 40 grain varmint bullet there exists a very real possibility that you will have not stopped the threat.

This is why the FBI protocol specifies 12 inches of penetration through 4 layers of denim. The worst case scenario is the bad guy turns sideways and you'll need approximately 12 inches of penetration through at least 3 layers of material in order to reach the vital organs.

That being said, Mk262 77 grain OTM ammo is supposed to reliably fragment at lower velocities than M193 or M855. No matter what, there exist better bullets for killing things than military style FMJ or target bullets.

[CEDaytonaRydr]

Depending on the ammunition...

If there is a bad guy that wants to kill you, and if you have an AR at hand, and if you shoot that bad guy with a 40 grain varmint bullet, and if that bad guy is wearing a jacket, and if you hit that bad guy in the arm that is covering his chest with that 40 grain varmint bullet there exists a very real possibility that you will have not stopped the threat.

At 300 yards, perhaps... Inside your house, or within a couple hundred yards, he's out of the fight. You're forgetting that out of an AR, a 40gr projetile flies at 3,500 feet per second, and as a result, expands faster. You hit someone in the arm with a 40gr Barnes VG, and he's not using that arm again until after about 6-12 months of physical therapy.

[NapalmCheese]

At 300 yards, perhaps... Inside your house, or within a couple hundred yards, he's out of the fight. You're forgetting that out of an AR, a 40gr projetile flies at 3,500 feet per second, and as a result, expands faster. You hit someone in the arm with a 40gr Barnes VG, and he's not using that arm again until after about 6-12 months of physical therapy.

He can still shoot, stab, kick, bite, scratch, headbutt, trip, knee, elbow, or otherwise try and ruin your day though. Just because you think you've caused great pain, and you think you've completely incapacitated a limb doesn't mean your assailant will stop attacking. I'm not disagreeing that a 40 grain VG won't ruin someone's day, I'm just saying it's not necessarily a reliable man stopper.

Nothing short of totally destroying the CNS will guarantee an immediate end to the threat. Choose your defensive load as you see fit. That being said, I don't keep an AR loaded for defensive purposes, I'm not an expert, nor have I ever shot a person, so my musings are completely theoretical.

OP, if you are looking for a self defense load, do yourself a favor and research terminal ballistics as it pertains to humans. You would also do well to read up on past home defense issues. Until then, buy some common defense type ammo (TAP, Gold Dot, etc.) to keep on hand. Once you've decided what's important to you in defense ammo you can disagree with people on random internet forums in a friendly way and then stock up on what you think is the best ammo for your purpose.

[CEDaytonaRydr]

He can still shoot, stab, kick, bite, scratch, headbutt, trip, knee, elbow, or otherwise try and ruin your day though.

And if the attacker is capable of doing any of those things after you shot them with a 3,500fps projectile, that's your fault for letting them get the drop on you. There's always the option of shooting them again...

Nothing short of totally destroying the CNS will guarantee an immediate end to the threat.

That's true whether you're talking about a .22LR or a .458 Win Mag. Shot placement is always the factor...

[NapalmCheese]

Use any ammo/bullet you like for self defense. I am not here to criticize your choice.

I disagree with the idea that a (or many) lightly constructed bullet(s) fired at a muzzle velocity of 3,500 fps will reliably deter and/or stop a threat.

I believe that a heavier constructed bullet fired at maximum muzzle velocity is more likely to penetrate deep enough with sufficient force to destroy vital organs and/or the CNS and will, therefore, more reliably deter and/or stop a threat than a lightly constructed bullet at nearly any muzzle velocity.

P.S.
Buckshot is better than birdshot for HD/SD
Scotch is better than bourbon
Venison is better than beef
Ford 351s are better than Chevy 350s
The Sharks are better than the Kings (don't get me started on my current disappointment)
OS X is better than Windows
FreeBSD is better than Linux

And if the attacker is capable of doing any of those things after you shot them with a 3,500fps projectile, that's your fault for letting them get the drop on you. There's always the option of shooting them again...



That's true whether you're talking about a .22LR or a .458 Win Mag. Shot placement is always the factor...

[LynnJr]

Luckily after the first shot with a muzzlebrake indoors You won't be able to hear for quite some time.
Also as intruders prefer the dark you'll most likely not be able to see all that well either.
This will give you time to come up with a great story as your hearing and eyesight start to improve.
If the intruder is wearing a bullet proof vest the energy from the round will most likely knock him down.If he/she falls face down turn them over and keep shooting.
Remember your hearing will be impaired anyway so You might as well finish the job while waiting for your ears to quit ringing.