Single stage time per round for handgun?

[bhartin]

Were those Aguilar crimped by chance?

They don't appear to be. They decapped as easily as the Winchester, and pushing in a primer is at least a smooth / even pressure all the way in--just more difficult than I found on my PRVI Partizan 7.62x54R brass. The pockets look smooth.

I'm sure it's just not particularly well manufactured. About one out of every dozen or so has a slightly off-center flash hole. I had to rotate some cases around to get the pin through it (universal decapping die).

[CalTeacher]

Some of us reloaders are to poor for the mighty Dillons.

Rifles, single stage baby!

Those of us with a few more shekels like me might also buy a manual turret press.



For case prep and pistols I do pretty good with my manual turret press.

My rifle case prep is decap stage then form stage on turret, prime by hand, charge in tray and single stage bullet set. and I'm changing loads to match each specific rifle and rifle caliber (in 30.06 one for Garand, one for 1903 & 1903A3)

For my RCBS manual turret and the pistol it decap stage one, form stage two, bell stage three,--- hand prime ---, powder drop in tray, then bullet seat stage 4 and crimp stage 5.

I have a bullet dispensing die (another stage) that I'm hoping to use in the future but I'm not there yet.

I loaded 200 rounds of SWC .45 acp, 6.0 grains of green dot in a little over half an hour taking my time. A couple of days ago I loaded 150 rounds of RN 45 acp with the same charge. Of course the brass had been decapped, shaped, belled, primed earlier.

Dillons are nice but I change between SWC and RN in both 45 and 38 along with reloading for .380, 9mm, 38 cal, .357, 40 cal, 44 cal and 45cal I''d be screwing around with a Dillon a lot.

With the manual turret I change bullets or calibers in about 3-5 minutes and with the batch drop I change charge amounts in about the same time (because I drop & measure many times - to make sure). Bullet and powder availability means I'm constantly changing powder, loads and bullets.

Reloading for my two boys and I is about 5,000 rounds per year in rifle / pistol.

I'm not sure a Dillon 650 would be of much help, now if I could get two - 650's that would take care of 75% of my reloading.

You need to factor in the resizing/decapping, belling, priming, stages in your overall time otherwise you're not getting a realistic figure. There's no way you're loading at almost 400rds/hour with a manual turret.

As far as switching between different bullet shapes, what I do is I keep a dummy round of every caliber/bullet profile at my loading bench so I can adjust my seating die accordingly when switching between bullets of the same caliber. For switching calibers, doing a complete conversion isn't always necessary, but it can take a little time. That's why you make large production runs between changes in order to lower your conversion time per round produced.

[CalTeacher]

Yeah yeah yeah...

I should have known that someone would pull a 10+ year old clip out of the archives of ONE guy that practiced a lot and was exceptionally skilled at what he did. Because EVERYONE shoots like that... That must be the new norm now that 4G is here...

It is the power of the internet! Now we must all load fast and shoot fast to be one of Jerry's kids...

In all honesty though, I would have been disappointed if someone did NOT take that shot so kudos for you.

Not everyone is superman with a revolver. Ask the police. That is why they no longer issue revolvers as duty weapons. (at least not RPD or RSO). Following events back around 1986 and later it was deemed that revolvers were slow to reload and outgunned by automatics. Thus the move to autos. So naturally what is good for the police is good for me and what seems to be a norm for many folks. I can empty a mag and load a new one just to empty that too much faster with an auto then I can with a revolver and speed loaders. That translates to burning through more ammo at the range for me and other people that I have taken to the range, and other people that I have noticed at the range. Autos are just naturally faster... And there is an exception to every rule...

I just want to add that many folks who shoot 38 special in USPSA, IDPA, ICORE, and SASS load this round on progressive presses. It is very easy to go through a lot of rounds of this caliber when shooting competitively. For this reason a progressive press (I don't care which brand) makes sense in order to make your reloading time more productive. It just boils down to the fact that you have to reload x number of rounds in y amount of time. For people with kids who shoot multiple matches per month, then a progressive is pretty much the only way to go.

I don't know why you hate Dillon so much, but they make great reloading equipment. Saying so takes nothing away from any of the other companies, but it does explain the satisfaction many Dillon users have with the product. I love my 550, but I won't say I hate other brands of progressives especially when I've never touched them (though my Lee Pro1000 was a POS). That would be pretty juvenile.


To the OP,

The downside to a progressive is that there is a fairly substantial upfront cost. They are also more complicated than single stages or turret presses. But they will produce a lot of ammo in a hurry if you need them to. I learned on a single stage and I think that's a great way for many reloaders to learn, but don't get too caught up in how long it takes you at first because single stages aren't meant to be fast. I'd say an acceptable range for production is between 50-100 rds per hour depending on the caliber and steps required.

[XDRoX]

When I only had a single stage I loaded about 50 rounds an hour.
Today I load on a Dillon at a rate of around 500 per hour. And yes, I even load 38spl on it because why wouldn't I?

I do however load 357mag on my Lee Turret because I don't have a dedicated Dillon tool head for 357mag.

Also if you want to speed up your single stage rate you may want to consider placing your powder measure on the press.

[Jasonaspears]

When I only had a single stage I loaded about 50 rounds an hour.
Today I load on a Dillon at a rate of around 500 per hour. And yes, I even load 38spl on it because why wouldn't I?

I do however load 357mag on my Lee Turret because I don't have a dedicated Dillon tool head for 357mag.

Also if you want to speed up your single stage rate you may want to consider placing your powder measure on the press.

Dude! I love that Rockchucker mounted on a strong mount. Did you have to drill new holes to mount it?

**I think I may have just answered my own question. Looks like you use a flat plate??

[Bumslie]

Dude! I love that Rockchucker mounted on a strong mount. Did you have to drill new holes to mount it?

**I think I may have just answered my own question. Looks like you use a flat plate??

http://inlinefabrication.com/collections/rcbs/products/ultramount-for-rcbs-rockchucker-rc1-rc2-supreme-pro2000

[Jasonaspears]

http://inlinefabrication.com/collect...upreme-pro2000

That's cool too. A bit more than a strong mount. I'm too broke after buying my 650

[Bumslie]

That's cool too. A bit more than a strong mount. I'm too broke after buying my 650

It includes shipping if I remember right.

He's a member on here and other boards

1in9twist

[XDRoX]

Dude! I love that Rockchucker mounted on a strong mount. Did you have to drill new holes to mount it?

**I think I may have just answered my own question. Looks like you use a flat plate??

Thanks. Yes, I got a piece of scrap aluminum at my local metal yard and cut it, drilled holes in it, and painted it. It came out really nice. The strong mounts make a bigger difference than a lot of people think. Plus it makes it so I can use the drawer in front of the press.

[Cowboy T]

@brettkeating, if you'd like to see the Classic Turret Press in action, loading the very round you're talking about (.38 Special), here you go.

http://www.sanfranciscoliberalwithagun.com/classicturret.html

If you'd like to see that same round (and also some .45 Colt, another wheelgun round) being done with a progressive press, here you go.

http://www.sanfranciscoliberalwithagun.com/pro1000.html

The .38 Special round is the primary round that I shoot, followed by .45 Colt. On my bench, there are single-stage, turret, and progressive presses, and yes, I use them all. The single-stage gets used for cast boolit sizing and load development. The Classic Turret gets used by my cameralady for .38 Special (and by me for ".45 Colt Magnum"), and the two progressives get used for .44 Spl/Mag and .38/357. So, all of them get used quite a bit.

For user-friendliness, I'd say the Classic Turret wins, hands-down. It's just dead-nuts-simple to use, and this is why my cameralady prefers it. When I did my initial .45 ACP runs, I used it for this round as well. It is not as fast as a progressive. With either cartridge, I tend to get about 120 rounds/hour, comfortably, without rushing, with this press. It also handles rifle cases very well (e. g. .30-06, 7.62x54R, the 378/416/460 Weatherby cases, and so on). If I were allowed to have only one press, this one would be my choice.

The progressives are faster, sure. But they're also more complex to operate. My progressives will get me about 350-375 rounds/hour of .38 Special, or 300 rounds of .45 Colt, again, without rushing. That's the tradeoff. You get more output, which is a good thing, but the machine's more complex.

Hope this helps.

[knucklehead0202]

Real old man here...been loading for a long time...nothing but single stage for everything..it's a hobby for me and slow and easy is better...that's how I relax with everything. I "batch" things...some time when I'm not busy I might deprime and tumble a bunch of brass and set it aside...then another time I'll size and prime with the old Lee Autoprime (old style with the round tray) and set them aside...then when I feel like it go ahead and load up 50 or 100 rounds...and like that...I've never "fallen behind".

Don't load any of the "black weapon" rounds so no need to mass produce thousands of rounds...My range time has no upper or lower limit...if I run out of ammo I go home...If I get tired before I run out...I go home. For me it's just an enjoyable pass time and there is no pressure to accomplish anything special except to shoot well, shoot safe and keep all my digits (which I have for many years).

This is exactly how I load, especially considering I've got a dozen or so calibers of weird, old rifle stuff I have to keep them separate. Since I started loading .308 for my brother's FAL it feels thankless. I leisurely loaded around 200 rounds and we blew through them so fast! I may have to get a turret but still have no plans to move toward progressive. Just seems like a front-wheel-drive car to me, too much crap going on in one place ya know? I'm not an old guy but I get accused of it a lot. Old soul I guess....

[not-fishing]

You need to factor in the resizing/decapping, belling, priming, stages in your overall time otherwise you're not getting a realistic figure. There's no way you're loading at almost 400rds/hour with a manual turret.

As far as switching between different bullet shapes, what I do is I keep a dummy round of every caliber/bullet profile at my loading bench so I can adjust my seating die accordingly when switching between bullets of the same caliber. For switching calibers, doing a complete conversion isn't always necessary, but it can take a little time. That's why you make large production runs between changes in order to lower your conversion time per round produced.

Your right. I'm only talking about dropping powder, seating bullet and crimping 200 rounds in half hour or so at a nice easy pace. I look at each charged brass to see that the approximately right amount of powder has dropped.

I have the boy, decap, size and bell brass when I get 400-1000 to do. He's a heck of a lot faster than me.

Funny thing is when you look at my stages I need a 7 stage press to do what I do the way I do it. and I'm not sure how to get the "feel" of hand seat primers

I've never had the luxury of large production runs in handgun. Most of my production runs are between 400-1000 rounds with a lot of different calibers, different powder charges, different bullet configurations, 5 test round & chrono time in between.

I do the test bullet for initial placement also but I always have to tweak the dies to get the measured OAL and crimp that I want.

This weekend I have another 10 rounds to chrono for load development due to the fact that I can't get the right powder.

[brettkeating]

So you don't shoot competitively I take it. There are several people I know that shoot revolvers fast at the events I go to. To say that 38 special is meant to he shot slow is laughable at best

This.

My gun is a S&W 627PC, it's a revolver, and it isn't even allowed at many competitive events.

Not sure if the same goes for any autos.

[brettkeating]

@brettkeating, if you'd like to see the Classic Turret Press in action, loading the very round you're talking about (.38 Special), here you go

....


Hope this helps.

Thanks that does help! I got into reloading for rifle initially, since I have a couple Arisaka WWII Japanese battle rifles that I enjoy shooting, and I can save 85% of the cost per round by reloading, which adds up QUICK when you consider that $2.00 per round is normal for factory (assuming you can find it, I think I bought the last two boxes in existence a few months ago). Something efficient that works well for both handgun and rifle would be a serious consideration for me.

[stilly]

I just want to add that many folks who shoot 38 special in USPSA, IDPA, ICORE, and SASS load this round on progressive presses. It is very easy to go through a lot of rounds of this caliber when shooting competitively. For this reason a progressive press (I don't care which brand) makes sense in order to make your reloading time more productive. It just boils down to the fact that you have to reload x number of rounds in y amount of time. For people with kids who shoot multiple matches per month, then a progressive is pretty much the only way to go.

I don't know why you hate Dillon so much, but they make great reloading equipment. Saying so takes nothing away from any of the other companies, but it does explain the satisfaction many Dillon users have with the product. I love my 550, but I won't say I hate other brands of progressives especially when I've never touched them (though my Lee Pro1000 was a POS). That would be pretty juvenile.


To the OP,

The downside to a progressive is that there is a fairly substantial upfront cost. They are also more complicated than single stages or turret presses. But they will produce a lot of ammo in a hurry if you need them to. I learned on a single stage and I think that's a great way for many reloaders to learn, but don't get too caught up in how long it takes you at first because single stages aren't meant to be fast. I'd say an acceptable range for production is between 50-100 rds per hour depending on the caliber and steps required.

I actually agree with you with MOST of what you have said here. OF course, I think where EVERYONE got off track was by bringing up the expensive progressive press as a way to go faster. Yeah, I do not deny that, but OP is not a competitor so do we REALLY need to suggest a $2000 press? And yes, I know it is only $650 or whatever... Yeah, I aint gonna play that game, we ALLLLLLLLL know that NOBODY is gonna buy a blue machine and NOT get the accessories to go with it. That is like buying a porsche and getting manual windows and no cruise control... Can it be done? Sure, but not in REAL LIFE. About as bad as buying a full auto sub machine gun and you only get 5 rd mags to go with it...

So, THAT is why I said what I said. AND I am sticking to my guns. Also, for the record, I do not hate Dill- anyways. Let's stop beating that dead horse... Pretty please with a GITD 200gr SWC on top? If I was going to buy ANY progressive press tomorrow and money was no object, I would get the hornady ammo plant or a camdex of some sort. But really a Hornady LNL ammo plant would be fine.

NOW for speed, Last weekend while watching TV in my living room, I primed about 1600 .45 cases. It took about 5 hours or so, but I enjoyed myself and had fun.

Last night I spent about 3-4 hours, maybe a tad less on my Lee Turret and made about 800-900 rounds of .45 acp.

Nothing fancy, just my badass $115 press with a LNL $130 case activated powder dropper, a set of LEE .45 ACP dies and a powderfunnel PTX... ($35)

Do I need a progressive? You bet. I gotta make 8k rounds of ammo to eat up this 8LB bottle of IMR-800X and I am getting SICK of buying batteries for my vibrator. Of course, each set of batteries lasts for about 350+ rounds. I need a small vibrator that runs on AC so I can just plug it in, set it to SPIN CYCLE and get to loading... I only stopped because I ran out of prepared projectiles. I gotta check my loads for PC and see what the 200gr pills will be vs my 230gr pills...

OP: No need for a progressive if you can set up a Lee classic turret to be efficient.