Questions about 9mm luger data

[1bulletBarney]

Can someone help me to make sense of all this...

Reloader's guide from Alliant website for Speer 115 grn GDHP using Unique calls out a powder charge of 6.3 grns, reduce charge by 10% to start as stated on site, calculated 5.7grn to start. min OAL 1.125

Lymans Reloading Manuel 49th edition for Hornady 115 grn HPXTP using Unique calls out a powder charge min 4.4 grns and max 5.8 grns... min OAL 1.090

Regarding Unique,the published data seems to conflict and why such a difference? HP bullet, identical weight?

Also I have 500 x-treme 115 grn copper plated RN 9mm boolits... their website says that copper plated bullets can be run at mid-range jacketed velocities or higher end lead velocities... OK

I also scored some CFE pistol and seems to be more data from Hodgdon website...

Data from my Lee 9mm delux die set gives a OAL for 115 plated RN boolits at 1.140-1.142

I'm new to all this and the data has me stumped. btw i did end up with the Unique, so I got 2 powders to work with... my intent is to start with the CFE pistol. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated...

[J-cat]

The deeper you seat a bullet the less case volume.

Smaller case volume means higher pressure per grain of powder, do a reduction is necessary.

Also, different components will make different pressure in different platforms.

[UnknownShooter]

as for oal, ideally, you want the longest that will reliably feed & chamber in whatever gun you're shooting. some projectiles might be too short to stretch out the length all the way to max oal (not enough projo in the case). I believe absolute maxy-max-max-max oal for 9mm is in the area of 1.17~ish, but you prolly can't quite get there with 115gr projos. I'd follow the lee spec of 1.140-1.142 & make a couple of "dummy" rounds (no powder) & see if they pass the "plunk test" on your barrel (they should easily). then try putting them in a mag & make sure they'll feed.. (they should ). I've never tried extreme plated projos, but I have tried berrys plated 115's & they fed & chambered fine from 1.1-1.15 ~ish in all my guns.. I've tried cranking the oal way short before with different projos & never noticed any benefit. longer seems to be better in all my guns. my current favorite recipe uses 124gr jacketed rounds @ 1.16~ish, but thats a longer, "pointier" projo than you have, and you prolly cant get to that length & still have enough projo inside the case..

as for the powder charges.. i feel your pain.. every load manual has different & conflicting data, best to start light, make a few & see how they shoot. with the lee auto-disc setup I use, i can usually only approximate a given setting - i might be able to hit 4.4gr of a given powder & the next larger disc size might give me 4.7gr & 2 discs up might give me 5.1gr. if I had a range like you have, I would make up a mag (10 rounds) of all three (conservative) loads + take one mag of white box and a shooting rest & go to the range. start at the bottom load & see if your gun cycles & if the rounds go through the targets straight. then bump it up a notch, see if your groups are any looser/tighter & look over the brass coming out of your gun.

if the load data you have was the only data available, I personally would top out at about 5 grains (of unique) - if I wasn't getting accuracy at that level, i'd try another powder. I've never tried the cfe myself, so I can't say anything about that, but I have tried some unique & remember it as being pretty forgiving & accurate, even at the low end of the scale.

[Pauliedad]

Welcome to reloading and the brain numbing variables that seem endless with 9mm.

Those are great answers.
I would emphasize that all the manuals seem to use wildly different test guns/barrels and they are never mine.
Barrel length will change performance too.
I also have found that bullet profile will mess with you too. You'll find a great OAL for a gun (or several) and then try a different bullet. Start over time.
I also found that it was harder to duplicate published velocities in 9mm than in .38, .45,or even .40
At the height of the shortage this last year I tried a moly coated lead bullet that made me crazy trying to find a combo that didn't lead the barrels (finally did and had to cuz I bought like 10k of those things) so for anyone who will listen I always encourage guys to stick with a plated or jacketed bullet for 9mm. With powder still being the biggest variable, the plated give you more positive options.
The dummy round advice is huge and more so if you want to find one seating depth for all your 9s.
I also found you don't need to go near max for accuracy. Safer, easier on you, guns, and brass.
Have fun.

[J-cat]

You can use OAL to tune for accuracy and point of impact. My Glock likes them very short, otherwise it will print an inch or two to the right.

[stilly]

Can someone help me to make sense of all this...

Reloader's guide from Alliant website for Speer 115 grn GDHP using Unique calls out a powder charge of 6.3 grns, reduce charge by 10% to start as stated on site, calculated 5.7grn to start. min OAL 1.125

Lymans Reloading Manuel 49th edition for Hornady 115 grn HPXTP using Unique calls out a powder charge min 4.4 grns and max 5.8 grns... min OAL 1.090

Regarding Unique,the published data seems to conflict and why such a difference? HP bullet, identical weight?

Also I have 500 x-treme 115 grn copper plated RN 9mm boolits... their website says that copper plated bullets can be run at mid-range jacketed velocities or higher end lead velocities... OK

I also scored some CFE pistol and seems to be more data from Hodgdon website...

Data from my Lee 9mm delux die set gives a OAL for 115 plated RN boolits at 1.140-1.142

I'm new to all this and the data has me stumped. btw i did end up with the Unique, so I got 2 powders to work with... my intent is to start with the CFE pistol. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated...

Most of reloading is very shakey science or, what I refer to more as ART rather than science.

There are not a lot of solid NO or YES measurements when you reload. Most of the measurements are gonna tell you yeah you can go around that size, but no smaller than blankety blank blank.

The LEE manual has the illustration showing the correct sammi specs but on their load data the numbers are all over the place, when asked they told me it was because the typical specs are one thing, but for the different loads, you can go smaller then normal specs, AND you should not go smaller then their specs for each load. That made sense to me. Since I tend to reload for my magazines, I find that my specs are always a tad longer than sammi specs. And that is FINE, as a result I have slightly less pressure and maybe slightly lower velocity, but it is fairly safe. Well, as safe as it can be for dumping 30k-40k PSI in your face...

The reloading books are all GUIDES, they are there to GUIDE you but they are NOT always going to be ABSOLUTE unless you try something dumb like mixing powders to put a curve on one side... Then they all say the same thing, ABSOLUTELY NOT... :\

[1bulletBarney]

Great replys, thanks...

I'm waiting for my press (Lee Challenger Breach Lock Press Kit). included in order was the Lee Powder Scoop set and extra bushings. I allready have a tumbler, caliper, impact bullet puller, Lee 9mm 4 die set, reloader manuel and 2lbs of CFE pistol, 1lb of Unique, 1000 CCI small pistol primers and x-treme 115 grn copper plated bullets, lots of brass, patience and willingness to learn...

When I get set up, my plan is to make up some dummy rnds, go with 1.140-1.42 OAL.Verify with go-no go gauge, barrel plunk. Dial in a starting charge with the scoops and verify charge with scale, I'll avoid the perfect powder measure for now. I want to really take my time through the process. I'll start with CFE pistol 5.1 grns to start ( two 10ths below start for 115 jacketed, two 10ths above start for 115 leaded RN as per Hodgdon data) work up to 5.5 grn charge. Oh, I forgot to decap and set primers lol, I'll start out priming off the press, using hand priming tool, no more than .005 below flush. I will also have a experienced loader with me to help me through this.

What I posted above is subject to change.Thanks for the support and any suggestions will be much appreciated...

[Spdjunkie]

imho:

I NEVER go by Alliants online Data, those are all MAX charges for Jacketed Bullets, the data is WAY over most reloading books & imho: UNSAFE, wreck less on their part. Please Proceed with Caution, be safe.

Only site that has descent info. for "reference" is Hodgdons New Updated website.
Personally, I stick with reloading manuals/books and work up from minimum charge weight.

Stay safe

[J-cat]

Which Alliant recipe, specifically, is unsafe?

[Spdjunkie]

Which Alliant recipe, specifically, is unsafe?

Imho:
Not one particularly, the format in which it is posted.
Recent posts from various forums show references to Alliants data by NEW reloaders. Anyone with some experience reloading, behind a chrono, can make an educated guess that those are on the hotter side by the velocity. But, new reloaders might not catch that. Many are "assuming" jacketed data applies to plated, which is not so. Reason I post for those to work up "their" loads for each firearm from reloading books & over a chrono, than gather data off the internet.

Again, above imho.

[ElDub1950]

Published load data also has a lot to do with where the accuracy became unacceptable in their tests, with their gun, with that bullet. Although I treat their Max as the max safe load - I'm not interested in finding the max velocity anyway.

So, the min data gives you a general guideline starting point for that powder & bullet.

Then half the fun is testing to find what works best in your guns. That becomes even more fun now that you can never count on finding the same powder twice, so you get lots of practice testing you loading recipes

[J-cat]

Imho:
Not one particularly, the format in which it is posted.
Recent posts from various forums show references to Alliants data by NEW reloaders. Anyone with some experience reloading, behind a chrono, can make an educated guess that those are on the hotter side by the velocity. But, new reloaders might not catch that. Many are "assuming" jacketed data applies to plated, which is not so. Reason I post for those to work up "their" loads for each firearm from reloading books & over a chrono, than gather data off the internet.

Again, above imho.

So Powder manufacturers have to tailor data to the lowest common denominator now?

Or maybe noobs should doo more reading and less loading?

[Spdjunkie]

So Powder manufacturers have to tailor data to the lowest common denominator now?

Or maybe noobs should doo more reading and less loading?

[Pauliedad]

How about read enough so you get confident enough to load and shoot with a chrono. Validating info will help you really grasp what you're messing with.
One can stay safe with bunny fart loads and I for one agree that the format on some powder sites could be a tad more explicit about the numbers listed as max loads.

[J-cat]

A chronograph is not going to make a noob any safer.