Lead Exposure...

[alantani]

another factor could be that a range is a dynamic environment. you could pop off 500 rounds at an indoor range in pretty short order, early in the morning with no one around you, and have a limited exposure. you could also be at the range at 7pm on ladies night, with every lane packed, fire off only 100 rounds in that same hour, and maybe have 10 times the amount of lead exposure because of all the guys around you.

even outdoors, early morning, still air, everyone around you shooting, the air could get pretty thick. you have no way of controlling what is being shot by the half dozen guys that are upwind from you. you might be shooting good quality stuff, but the guys next to you might be shooting junk. all that smoke takes 5 seconds to drift into your breathing space. and just like the smoke from my pot of recycled fishing weights carries lead, the smoke from a discharged round also carries lead. these smoke particles will certainly keep the lead suspended in air. you've gotta figure that if you smell smoke, you are inhaling lead. this is an example of the ideal world meeting the real world.

remember, though, that this is not a problem for most guys. getting a little whiff of gun smoke will no more cause lead poisoning than getting a whiff of cigarette smoke will cause lung cancer. still we know that people get lung cancer, just like we know that people get elevated lead levels. it does happen. what we've got to do is identify those people with elevated lead levels and try to figure out what they're doing differently. that's the goal.

[alantani]

SO? why is my lead level up to 22? My only exposure is during competition... and I know that my buddies who shoot non toxic primers and full metal jacket bullets, shooting just as often as I do, and use the same reloading methods as me, but their lead is below 6. It has to be the lead cloud

you've had to have had more than one lead level checked in your life time. at least one level every year, right? over the last 10 years, to the best of your recollection, can you tell us what your levels were, and the month and year that these levels were checked?

[HighLander51]

you've had to have had more than one lead level checked in your life time. at least one level every year, right? over the last 10 years, to the best of your recollection, can you tell us what your levels were, and the month and year that these levels were checked?

I have been shooting competitively and reloading for 47 years, and did casting for a 10 year period over 30 years ago. I only started testing 3 years ago after a younger shooter, only 2 years into the game tested at 14. I started at 12 and have gone up to 22 in 3 years, testing every 6 months. Which by the way is reported to the State of CA, and the county you live in. My friend who tested at 14 stopped shooting moly lead, and switched to fully jacketed bullets and dropped to below 6. Since 3 years ago, after every match, I wipe off my hands, face, arms, blow my nose with Dlead wipes, about 3 of them, take off my shirt and shoes, and change out before going home. My exposure is only from shooting moly lead bullets using Lead styphnate primers, and resetting steel targets, which are coated with lead dust. Why shoot moly coated lead, cost. Full metal jacketed bullets are about 2.5 times more expensive.

[HighLander51]

Possibly.

The next scary question is are you sure your lead exposure is from shooting? I know it's out there, but have to throw out the possibility.

I have all of the equipment for air monitoring for lead. You may have inspired me to take it with me to the range next weekend. Then again... do I want to know?

Ferrum, look at the videos I posted. That is what I do 6 times a month, that cloud does not dissipate so quickly. You are more than welcome to come out to the next competition match and check my gas cloud for lead content. In fact, I would welcome it, because most of my squad *****es up a storm about that exhaust from my G17. 125 gr Bear Creek moly TC on top of 4.0 grains of TiteGroup at 1.100" OAl. It's hot and smoky..

[alantani]

then the source of your exposure has to be from the primer and/or the projectile as it exits the barrell. is a different primer an option? i'm just getting into reloading and all i have are plain winchester and cci small and large pistol primers. if you change out just the primers and your lead level drops, you have your answer. your situation is certainly the exception, but that does not make it less important. i think it actually makes it more so.

[Saym14]

get your blood test. I was concerned until I did - mine is very low, but I also shoot mostly out doors. jut told the doctor I work in construction.

[HighLander51]

then the source of your exposure has to be from the primer and/or the projectile as it exits the barrell. is a different primer an option? i'm just getting into reloading and all i have are plain winchester and cci small and large pistol primers. if you change out just the primers and your lead level drops, you have your answer. your situation is certainly the exception, but that does not make it less important. i think it actually makes it more so.

The lead is from both the primer and the moly coated lead bullets. Most of the smoke is from the bullet. Non toxic (heavy metal free) primers are an option but very hard to come by. PMC makes them but they are almost never available, and they don't seat as well as CCI's. Full metal jackets are an option, but the cost is very high compared to moly lead. Actually most of the guys I shoot with that run moly have blood lead around 15-25.

[HighLander51]

and this is what is left over in the barrel after a couple hundred rounds of moly lead, using the old recipe of white vinegar and hydrogen peroxide to 'get the lead out.

[HighLander51]

alantani, what kind of loader are you going with? The reason to ask is most first timers will try to cheap out to get started and end up buying better equipment later. I run Dillon presses, because they are warrantied forever (except the 1050 commercial unit) and Mike Dillon supports competition shooting. Keep in mind the dead primer still has lead dust in it, so I use a primer catch tray with motor oil to catch and hold all the dust.

[Kodemonkey]

alantani, what kind of loader are you going with? The reason to ask is most first timers will try to cheap out to get started and end up buying better equipment later. I run Dillon presses, because they are warrantied forever (except the 1050 commercial unit) and Mike Dillon supports competition shooting. Keep in mind the dead primer still has lead dust in it, so I use a primer catch tray with motor oil to catch and hold all the dust.

Dumb question, but why motor oil and not just water? Seems like oil would make disposal more of a pain in the butt.

[HighLander51]

less splash and coats better

[alantani]

alantani, what kind of loader are you going with? The reason to ask is most first timers will try to cheap out to get started and end up buying better equipment later. I run Dillon presses, because they are warrantied forever (except the 1050 commercial unit) and Mike Dillon supports competition shooting. Keep in mind the dead primer still has lead dust in it, so I use a primer catch tray with motor oil to catch and hold all the dust.

i'm in "preparation" mode right now. the goal is to buy a dillon 650, maybe this summer. right now i have a set of lee carbide resizing dies that are dedicated to resizing dirty brass using a single stage lee challenger press. in the last couple of months, i've deprimed and resized over 6 tall buckets worth of brass. i have 4 tall buckets of .45acp brass, one tall bucket of .40s&w, 2/3rds of a tall bucket of 9mm brass, a gallon jug's worth of .380acp and another gallon jug's worth of mixed .223 and 5.56. it's all been deprimed and resized, and some of it was tumbled in walnut. hated dry tumbling, so a buddy of mine is making me a wet tumbler that will be similar to the bigdawg design. i have alot of brass to clean this summer.

i already have 2k each of each caliber that i'm going to reload, plus 30k of primers. oh, and i have no powder at all. six of the 8 pound jugs of a couple of different powders are on back order. once i have my shopping list completed, i need to clean up the garage, set up the bench, and get to work. i've been reloading at my buddies garage for a while now. i've just gotta get my own set up completed before i wear out my welcome.

[alantani]

The lead is from both the primer and the moly coated lead bullets. Most of the smoke is from the bullet. Non toxic (heavy metal free) primers are an option but very hard to come by. PMC makes them but they are almost never available, and they don't seat as well as CCI's. Full metal jackets are an option, but the cost is very high compared to moly lead. Actually most of the guys I shoot with that run moly have blood lead around 15-25.

ok, so you have two sources of lead exposure. and your lead level is clearly too high. dude, a lead level of 25 is too high. it's not marginal, it's not ok for a while, it's not ok at all. it's too high. your lead level needs to be less than 10. you can do this stepwise, with either non-toxic primers or jacketed bullets, or you can do both, but you've got to do something. want to keep shooting non-jacketed bullets, no problem. just switch to a non-toxic primer for 6 months and see what happens to your lead level. then switch back to regular primers and start loading jacketed bullets and recheck your levels again. if you don't see a big drop with one or the other, then switch over to both for 6 months and check your lead level again. simple process.

you had this talk with your doc already, right?

[HighLander51]

ok, so you have two sources of lead exposure. and your lead level is clearly too high. dude, a lead level of 25 is too high. it's not marginal, it's ok for a while, it's not ok at all. it's too high. your lead level needs to be less than 10. you can do this stepwise, with either non-toxic primers or jacketed bullets, or you can do both, but you've got to do something. want to keep shooting non-jacketed bullets, no problem. just switch to a non-toxic primer for 6 months and see what happens to your lead level. then switch back to regular primers and start loading jacketed bullets and recheck your levels again. if you don't see a big drop with one or the other, then switch over to both for 6 months and check your lead level again. simple process.

you had this talk with your doc already, right?

Since you are new to reloading you don't really know that components are not that readily available, primers and powder especially. 2nd non toxic primers don't seat well, which jams everything up. 3rd, I can buy Montana Gold full metal jacket hollow points at 2.5 times the cost, but why? Yes, I have talked to my doctor, he doesn't even know why bullets are made of lead.... SO the real question is, at age 62, what will a continued lead level of 25 cause? Like I said, most of the old guys I roll with have been shooting for at least as long as me, 40 years plus, and we all have similar lead levels. 2 guys that I know were treated for levels of over 80 and are back in the low 20's now.

[alantani]

regarding the clinical effects of long term, low level, lead exposure in later life, the medical community is divided. half say they know what the effects are, and the other half says that they don't know, and the truth is that nobody knows for sure. what we suspect in kids is that elevated lead levels leave them with mild mental retardation. basically, they become slow learners.

in adults, there were studies done in lead workers and their lead levels ranged from 1 to 65. they noted a loss of "cognition." that's a fancy way of saying that these guys had a mild case DNS or CRS without admitting that they had no way to pin a hard number on their findings. remember that discussion about bad science? there are things that you just can't pin a number on and yet they still try to pass it off as science. there is no way to know what the long term effects will be, but i know for sure they will not be good.

i think mark twain was credited with the saying, "if i knew i was going to live this long, i would have taken better care of my teeth." if you knew you were going to croak at 65, don't worry about it. if you plan on living to 95, i'd start trying to get that level down.