45-70 loads i dont understand

[J.R.W.]

I dont understand how the listings can be so different from the hornady book spree book& hodgdon book . I am loading Remington 300gr jhp with imr 3031 & h335. just trying 2 work up a good load .
Accuracy is my goal.i can get 11/4" groups at 100 yrds with Winchester super x factory loads.
Any advice is greatly appreciated

[OldShooter32]

What's the issue? Different powder weights?
Load up some ladder loads (increasing slowly to max) and run them on paper, preferably through a chronograph. See which one your rifle likes best.

[mark501w]

What are you loading it in ?

[J.R.W.]

Loading in a marlin 1895 ss with a 22 " barrel

[J.R.W.]

I just dont get how the books can b so,different 1 books max load is another s starting load

[CalTeacher]

The books could be referring to different tiers (trapdoor v. levergun v. ruger #1). Go to Hodgdon's website and find the proper data. Then start low and work up until you find a velocity/accuracy combo that suits your needs. Alternatively, try a different powder like H4198 or IMR4198 and see if you obtain better results.

[mark501w]

Some books will have a# of different sections based on the strength of the gun , old or modern. You can start @ the 1300 fps level .45/70 can be loaded up to where your gun won't take it or you can't.

[J.R.W.]

I understand there r 3 levels of rounds for 45-70 all the listing iam referring to are for level2 for the marlin .speaking of hodgdon web site there starting load of 60 grs of h335 is above hornadys max load for a 300gr jhp . Iam new 2 reloading . So sorry if i sound dumb . If u have fired a 300 gr hp with 60grs of h335 u know this is a stout load . How can it b a starting load in 1 book but more then max in another .

[J.R.W.]

Iam just trying 2 learn more about this i have only loaded about 70 rnds of only 1 caliber & thats my 45-70 iam useing a lee hand loader

[Wrangler John]

What rifle are you shooting? Loads are dependent on the rifle's design and age, with weaker actions limited to low pressure loads.

Accuracy is dependent on barrel characteristics, bore and groove diameter, rifling style, condition and twist rate.

Load variation with factory manuals is caused by differences in the bullets themselves, which firearm or test barrel they used to develop the load, the cases used (Winchester, Remington, Starline, etc), pressure measuring methodology (copper crusher or pressure transducer) when the loads were developed (sometimes the load data is republished from previous years-old data), powder and primer variations and lots, and safety margin, and the lawyer factor.

If you go to www.hodgdon.com, then enter the Loading Center, you will find there are the same three pressure level loads for older rifles, listed in most manuals:

Trapdoor Springfield, Remington Rolling Block and other antique firearms, i.e. original Winchester 1886, etc. = Limited to 28,000 psi.

Lever Action Rifles usually described as the Marlin 95. = Limited to 40,000 psi. (Although the Browning reproduction Model 1886 manufactured from modern steel circa 1980's and the Winchester reproductions are included in some manuals).

Modern Actions, described as Ruger #1 and #3, Browning 1885 Single Shot, and the Siamese Mauser = 50,000 psi.

My experience of loading the .45-70 for modern 1886 reproductions and a custom built Siamese Mauser is that IMR 4198, IMR 3031, H-322, Varget and H-4895 are the accuracy powders. While Nosler lists AA 2015 as the accuracy powder for their Strong Action loads with the 300 grain partition bullet, I had mixed results. The Fourth Edition Hornady Manual lists best results with IMR 4198 and 3031. I have reduced my favorite powders to IMR 3031 and Varget.

My Siamese Mauser is barreled with a 1:18" twist barrel for use with 500 grain bullets. This rifle will shoot the Hornady 350 grain RN and the 500 grain Round Nose into about an 1.5" at 100 yards with 53.0 grains of IMR 3031. The same load with a Oregon Trail 350 grain Flat Nose shoots as well. Recoil is substantial.

The best cast bullet load I have for the Browning 1886 uses the cast 350 Grain Flat Nose Oregon Trail bullet (http://laser-cast.com/45Cal.html) over 48 grains of Varget, sparked by a Wolf Standard large rifle primer in the Starline case. This load shot well in two Browning 1886's.

There are numerous loads listed on www.loaddata.com, but this is a subscription service from Wolf Publishing. Another good selection of accurate cast bullets is at http://beartoothbullets.com/bulletselect/index.htm

Just use the starting data and work up a grain at a time until accuracy settles down. This cartridge isn't finicky. One tip is to trim all the cases to the length of the shortest, ensuring that all crimps are consistent, lightly chamfer the case mouth, and use just enough bell to prevent shaving the bullets. Accurate loading technique is the same as for any straight wall revolver cartridge.

The .45-70 is a great old cartridge, and a hoot to shoot. Just resist the urge to hot rod it as recoil can be substantial, and those big old bullets hit with authority.

[J.R.W.]

I have done some ladder work through guidance of another calgunner he has been very very helpful i still got all my finger & every round went bang & hit something ....... Hey its a,start

[J.R.W.]

Thank u wrangler john 4 some input

[ElvenSoul]

This is a old round from Black Powder Days!

Some folks still load it that way!

[CalTeacher]

Something else to consider is that depending upon what purpose you're loading for, you don't need to push those big bullets to the highest possible velocity. A 300-400gr bullet will do plenty of damage at mid range velocities out to a few hundred yards. You just need to understand the trajectory of your load and the limitations of the round. According to Hodgdon, you can load 61-68gr of 335 with your bullet weight. Get a chronograph and start working up some loads and see where the accuracy node is at. Also, are you shooting with the stock sights, peep sights, or an optic?

[LynnJr]

Look carefully at the cartridge over all length from both sources.If they are not identical for the 300 grain bullet the freebore in the rifles chamber is different and that is why one is a max load while another is a starting load.

If you were to look at a old Sierra reloading manual and a new one side by side for the 25-06 cartridge you would see the same thing.The load in the older book that is at maximum pressure is now the starting load in the newer manual.

The C.O.A.L. is different because the older rifle had less freebore than the newer rifle.The more freebore you have the more powder you can use while still maintaining safe pressure levels.

Your cartridges case is merely a pressure vessel so if the vessel remains unchanged and you add more powder the pressure goes up.

If you use the same amount of powder but increase the freebore allowing the seated bullet to sit out of the case more the pressure drops.