Sonic cleaner question

[selfshrevident]

I have recently invested in the Hornady sonic case cleaner and I am trying to find a simple yet effective cleaning solution for my brass. I tried the Hornady case cleaning solution and I was less than impressed. The primer pockets and insides of the cases were not that clean.

I came across this guy's recipe that uses white vinegar and then a final touch of baking soda to stop the acidic reaction on the brass: http://www.6mmbr.com/ultrasonic.html
(Look about 3/4 of the way down the page)

After some research I've found that vinegar is perhaps the most popular solution for cleaning cases, but the brass needs to bathe in some sort of deactivating agent so it doesn't continue to corrode. My question is should I use baking soda or bleach? I've read that baking soda needs to first dissolve and it leaves a gritty residue on the brass. Bleach seems like a much easier step...

What say you? How much bleach or baking soda should I use?

[gemoose23]

I came across this guy's recipe that uses white vinegar and then a final touch of baking soda to stop the acidic reaction on the brass: http://www.6mmbr.com/ultrasonic.html
(Look about 3/4 of the way down the page)


What say you? How much bleach or baking soda should I use?

He lists how much baking soda to use.

480 seconds - Baking Soda (BS) in water (1 grain BS per ounce of water)

[selfshrevident]

Would bleach be a better alternative?

[gemoose23]

Would bleach be a better alternative?

Not for me, while bleach is more Basic according to PH scale... i dislike splashing bleach around, wife gets mad when I ruin clothes.

[rsrocket1]

Most "ultrasonic" users use either Lemishine or citric acid. The latter is the active ingredient in the former so whatever you get cheaper or easier is what you should try. You can get Lemishine in the cleaning section of Walmart. Citric acid both shines the brass and at the same time passivates it while vinegar eats away at the zinc in the brass and leaves a pink tint on it unless it's deactivated with the baking soda.

At the end of the day, remember you are principally trying to clean off grit from the cases to prevent damage to your dies and chamber. Shiny is nice as are clean primer pockets, but they don't make for more accurate rounds. That's why I use a vibe tumbler and walnut media.

[selfshrevident]

I think I ruined this batch of brass.

All my brass turned out pretty tarnished and looks corroded. I'm pissed! The cause is either A.) the bleach didn't work or B.) I may be loading the cleaner too full. I think it's the latter.

I was doing some research and read that if too much brass is loaded into the tank the vibrations don't clean that well. Hornady ADVERTISES that you can put 150 .308 cases in the 2L model. That's crap- I tried to clean 100 in one session and about 30% of my cases didn't get cleaned at all. I've read from other users that I need to start out with about 50-60 .308 cases.

My hypothesis: because the tank was loaded too full, I'm thinking that the vinegar "stuck around" more on the cases instead of moving around and mixing. Then when it came time for the deactivation bath in bleach, same principle applies. Too many cases, not a lot of cleaning/mixing happening, thus the acid was still on the cases and was never fully deactivated.

[modls7]

Bleach tarnishes brass. I am not sure why its the cleaners fault that you wound up with tarnished brass after sticking an oxidizing chemical and brass in a tub together.

[CCRoadKing]

+1 on the citric acid. I started with ultrasonic using hot distilled water with a teaspoon of citric acid for 2 480 cycles. The brass was de-primed and pre-rinsed with plain water. The brass came out nice and clean.

I have since switched to a vibratory with walnut shells because its simply less work and the brass looks just as good. And I don't have to de-prime or pre-rinse with this old school method.

[selfshrevident]

I have yet to experience 100% clean brass that other sonic cleaner users proclaim. I don't know what I'm doing wrong but I still get dirty primer pockets and inside the cases usually don't get cleaned. I get mixed results.

[hoisumguo]

For me, only a combo works. I've use a Hornady magnum sonic, with hornady case cleaner solution (haven't had time to try homemade recipes yet) at 120 deg for 30 min. Water rinse, 30 min air dry, and then corn cob tumble for 1 hour to finish dry and polish.

I found that without the rinse and tumble the sonic leaves behind residue on the case and pockets. If I don't use sonic though the pocket and inside don't get as clean with the tumble. Both together seems to do the trick consistently. Walnut media on tumble after sonic did not work very well for me.

Good luck! Hope you find a working formula for your sonic.

-Hoi

[selfshrevident]

For me, only a combo works. I've use a Hornady magnum sonic, with hornady case cleaner solution (haven't had time to try homemade recipes yet) at 120 deg for 30 min. Water rinse, 30 min air dry, and then corn cob tumble for 1 hour to finish dry and polish.

I found that without the rinse and tumble the sonic leaves behind residue on the case and pockets. If I don't use sonic though the pocket and inside don't get as clean with the tumble. Both together seems to do the trick consistently. Walnut media on tumble after sonic did not work very well for me.

Good luck! Hope you find a working formula for your sonic.

-Hoi

Thanks for the tips. I haven't abandoned my tumbler but my whole reason for going sonic was because I was tired of having media stuck in the cases. I think I'll only use the tumbler when I need something fast and not have to worry about drying time.

[selfshrevident]

So after my cases get cleaned, I theorize that I can start the resizing process without them having to be dry since I'll have to rinse the lube off anyway. After they're resized, they go back in the cleaner but using just plain water with a heat rinse maybe (just enough to get the lube off)? After that they get dried out completely to finish the reloading process. Sound good?

[rsrocket1]

So after my cases get cleaned, I theorize that I can start the resizing process without them having to be dry since I'll have to rinse the lube off anyway. After they're resized, they go back in the cleaner but using just plain water with a heat rinse maybe (just enough to get the lube off)? After that they get dried out completely to finish the reloading process. Sound good?

If you do that, your dies may rust if you put them away and there is any standing water on them, but some steel wool will take it right off.

[Norcal Industries]

simple green?

[JTecalo]

You are probably not going to get "shiny" brass from the ultrasonic, I don't. They are cleaned and shinier, just not factory new shiny.

I decap everything first with a lee universal decapper, helps getting the water out later.

You need to run the ultrasonic with your cleaning solution before you put in your brass (I use hot water, white vinegar and a drop of Dawn) so it can degass the solution, one cycle with the heat on works for me.

then run a couple of cycles with the brass, remove the brass & place in a container of water with baking soda to neutralize the vinegar.

Place in another container of clean water to rinse. Remove and DRY before you reload. Air dry, oven dry, or clothes dryer. Air dry takes the longest.

After they are totally dry I run them in my media tumbler if I want them shiny, then it's over to the press. Make sure you check the primer flash hole for media stuck inside if you decap before cleaning.

Just my method, there are many others.
Jim