Brinnel hardness of Rainier copper plated bullets?

[Parker2020]

I searched online but came up empty . Anybody personally tested these and know the answer ?

[mjmagee67]

Copper has a Brinell hardness on approximately 35 which would be for a thick slab of copper. Lead had a Brinell of 5 to 22+, but the lead used in jacket bullets tends to be 8 to12. So I would say 12-15 as a SWAG (Scientific Wild Azz Guess)

[stilly]

I am getting a Lee Lead hardness tester thingy majigger next week. I can possibly test my X-treme and Rainiers and let you know what they hit on the Lee mark...

Why you looking for this info?

[noylj]

Can't think of any reason one would need to know. Basically, the hardness is the hardness of copper, minus the amount the lead core deflects under the tester's load. Unless the copper plate is damaged, the lead hardness has no bearing on anything--just like jacketed bullets. The bullet will still flow and swage to chamber dimensions just like a jacketed bullet.

[Parker2020]

I recently found handloader formula for "minimum chamber pressure " for lead bullets (brinell hardness of bullet x 1422 ) = minimum pressure required to properly seal rear of bullet to barrel . Rainier says to use lead bullet reloading data for their plated bullets but they give no hardness rating .
I was going to start working up some new loads using these bullets and was going to compare my results against this formula .

[gemoose23]

IMHO it is easier to just use a chronograph and a load book, that lists chamber pressures etc.

It sounds you are trying to achieve a theoretical pressure #, using a lead formula on plated bullets. It would be easier to just use a chronograph and a load manual.

Also note that most handloaders use a lead bullet that is properly sized for their barrels to eliminate leading, i.e. slugging. Plated & jacketed bullets do not need to have this oversize issue as does lead bullets.

I believe there is too many other important factors to be concerned with (i.e. OAL, Powder charge consistency, accuracy, power factor, etc.), than trying to achieve a theoretical minimum chamber pressure (I am not even sure what type of equipment is needed to measure chamber pressures). Just my 2 cents.

[ireload]

I believe that Rainer uses almost pure copper versus copper alloy. I would not worry about Brinnel hardness for copper plated bullets. I've pushed copper plated bullets pass the recommend 1,200 fps velocity. Close to 1,300 for my 9mm and close to 1,400 for my .357 mag. with no issues as long as you don't cut into the plating while crimping.

[noylj]

The whole lead alloy vs pressure theory has been around since before I started reloading in 1973. Guess what? It has NEVER achieved anything.
Swaged lead, cast lead, and plated lead--FIT, FIT, FIT. You don't need plastic flow for fit if you start with fit. Stay at least 0.001" over groove diameter (except plated, which if undamaged will not lead the barrel).
8-12 BHN works from .45 Auto to .44 Mag. 8-12BHN and gas checks or 15-18BHN without GCs works well for all the rifle loads I have worked up.
And again, the copper eliminates the whole "reason" for alloy/pressure concerns.
PS: I imagine it is hard to electroplate an alloy...

[stilly]

I recently found handloader formula for "minimum chamber pressure " for lead bullets (brinell hardness of bullet x 1422 ) = minimum pressure required to properly seal rear of bullet to barrel . Rainier says to use lead bullet reloading data for their plated bullets but they give no hardness rating .
I was going to start working up some new loads using these bullets and was going to compare my results against this formula .

Oh you are trying to get all sciency like...

Well, next week I will have my Lee alloy tester hardness thingamajigger...

If you still wanna know I will post my sciency results.

[Hokanut]

I searched online but came up empty . Anybody personally tested these and know the answer ?

Old thread but just tested a Rainier .44 TMJFP 240gr. On the bottom I got .060-.063, softer in the center harder toward the edge. On the top .068, on the side .062. I'm using a Lee BHN test kit. So BHN respectively was 14.3 BHN (18,367 max. press.) on bottom center, 13.0 BHN ( 16,588 max. press.) bottom edge, 11.0 BHN ( 14,128 max. press.) on top, 13.4 BHN (17,152 max. press.) on the side. I've shot these on top of 9.0gr.(Min. suggested load) Winchester 231 powder with Winchester mag. primers from a Marlin .44 lever action, S&W 629 5" Ruger New Model Blackhawk 7.5" and they skipped the lands on all barrels. The bullet mics @ .428"