Why are steel cases non-reloadable?

[DEF23]

I have seen Wolf & Tula steel cased 7.62x39 empties turned into 6.5 Grendel cases and re-loaded a number of times.

Best part is, no case lubing necessary at all for re-forming........

........Look up 'hydro-forming'.........

[Vlad 11]

Ive reloaded many steel cases. I use motor oil as a case lube. Most are soft steel that resize quite easily.

Some i have neck sized only and have 7-8 cycles and counting. Its doable

I also convert to boxer primer, dealing with the berdan primer is the biggest obstacle. So with that eliminated its just like reloading boxer brass for me

[Exodus343]

I know three cheapskates who all reload steel. All three are retired. Makes sense, dealing with steel Berdan is very time consuming. They have to wax the cases so they don't rust. I've shot some of their reloaded 7.62x54r though, worked great.

[Turo]

I've done it. Steel is just a little harder than brass, and not as malleable. It's not impossible, just a little tougher than brass.

[BruinGuy]

Ive reloaded many steel cases. I use motor oil as a case lube. Most are soft steel that resize quite easily.

Some i have neck sized only and have 7-8 cycles and counting. Its doable

I also convert to boxer primer, dealing with the berdan primer is the biggest obstacle. So with that eliminated its just like reloading boxer brass for me

What is your process to convert the cases? Any issues with primer fit? I'd be interested in giving this a go with 7.5 Swiss and 8 Mauser brass cases with berdan primers.

[DEF23]

As seen on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkKJfvMyuDg

Cast Boolets:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?143958-Converting-Berdan-primer-pockets-to-Boxer

The Firing Line:

http://m14forum.com/ammunition/80143-converting-berdan-primed-brass-use-boxer-primers.html

The High Road:

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-709113.html

And even CalGuns had one up:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=496197

Haven't tried it myself. But I am looking forward to trying it also.

Hope that helps you out some, sir.

[CK_32]

It's reloadable...


It will just tear up your dies and components. Steel on steel no bueno.

[Mud Eagle]

It's reloadable...

It will just tear up your dies and components. Steel on steel no bueno.

Sorry, but this is just bunk. It is the reloading equivalent to "FUD".

There is zero actual verifiable evidence, anywhere, of this being true. If someone DOES have some, please feel free to post the photos or other evidence, along with the details. I have made this challenge on several other firearms forums, and I have yet to see a single provable instance of reloading steel damaging equipment.

Simply saying "steel on steel", and then making the leap of logic that this, in and of itself, it equal to damage, is ludicrous. There is a lot of machinery out in the world that functions with "steel on steel" moving parts, and somehow they function over long service lives. Even then, there is a lot more to metal wear than simply the material it is made from.

Take a look at the relative Rockwell hardness of these different types of cases:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBAh_8usXBI

Even then, until someone does a controlled, side-by-side, test of reloading dies resizing steel cases vs brass cases, and can determine at what point each of them "wears out" or is "torn up", then it is a baseless statement.

On the other hand, there are lots of folks -- myself included -- who have reloaded plenty of steel cases and not "torn up" any dies, components, rifles, extractors, or whatever else internet lore can come up with.

[CK_32]

Evidence? The evidence is in the structure of the case it self.

Google Brass and Steel and see the fiber make up and why it's harder on your dies. Just because you reload them and don't see damage doesn't mean it's not rubbing on your dies harder. Brass is soft, steel has a stronger body structure putting more friction and pressure on your dies when being loaded to shape it back in place. I'm not saying loading one will end in catostrophic failure but it's extra stress I my self and MANY other reloaders don't see worth the time and cost.

Not to mention most steel cased is berdan primed and that is a headache all in it self. So there is a lot of reasons why reloaders stick and stay with brass and don't see steel case worth the time or effort. Also chamber seal is slower with steel than brass again due to the structure make up of the case. Minimal leakage between it and brass but to some guys that loss of pressure or lack of minute performance is all it takes to ruin their 1000 yard bench shot.


If it works for you by all means keep at it. Leaves more brass for us.

[njineermike]

More info on steel case

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/forums/posts.aspx?postID=36527&AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1

[Mud Eagle]

Google Brass and Steel and see the fiber make up and why it's harder on your dies. Just because you reload them and don't see damage doesn't mean it's not rubbing on your dies harder. Brass is soft, steel has a stronger body structure putting more friction and pressure on your dies when being loaded to shape it back in place. I'm not saying loading one will end in catostrophic failure but it's extra stress I my self and MANY other reloaders don't see worth the time and cost.

Sorry, but that is still just passing on a general theory with absolutely zero specific evidence to support it. There's no relevance to this specific application of these specific types of steel in the dies and types of steel in the cases, at these specific pressures, using these typical types of lubricant.

And none of that has anything to do with "tearing up" your dies and equipment, as was stated in your original post. It doesn't even come close to proving that there in increase in wear, must less what that rate increase is. Just the same as you state that not observing doesn't mean it is not happening, just because you think it is happening does not mean that it is actually occurring.

What "increase in time and cost", exactly, is it that isn't worth it? Let's even stipulate that it does have increased wear on a die; how much earlier does it "wear out"? What's the actual replacement cost of the sizing die? Over the course of a reloader's lifetime, how much more cost in sizing die replacement would there be? All questions with no answers...and answers that would be needed to make the assertion that there is an increase in time and cost.

Not to mention most steel cased is berdan primed and that is a headache all in it self.

Not talking about berdan primed anything...and has nothing to do with "tearing up" dies or equipment.

So there is a lot of reasons why reloaders stick and stay with brass and don't see steel case worth the time or effort.

Time and effort to process the cases and reload steel is exactly the same as with a brass case.

Also chamber seal is slower with steel than brass again due to the structure make up of the case. Minimal leakage between it and brass but to some guys that loss of pressure or lack of minute performance is all it takes to ruin their 1000 yard bench shot.

Probably true, but accuracy out of steel loads for bench rest shooters at 1000 yards was not the topic of the thread, nor what you posted.

Every reloader has to make their own choices of components and methods that work for their specific rifle and what they want it to do. Just because it is not optimal for one type of loading and shooting does not make it inappropriate for others.

[CK_32]

Then reloading your steel.


I'm not having a pissing contest with you. I'm not a steel expert I just know what little I do from welding and being a CNC machine worker. I already said you can but it's not worth it to many of us for several reasons which I listed. Don't agree awesome keep loading your steel cases. Doesn't effect me I'm a brass guy and don't plan on switching anytime soon.

But if you load steel that's all fine and dandy I never said you couldn't. Just I choose not to. Nothing more nothing less.

[Mud Eagle]

Having to re coat it with lacquer

I tumble in stainless pins, which takes off both the poly and lacquer coating. There is no need to re-coat them with anything for use, although they are susceptible to rust/corrosion under certain conditions.

For the last year or two, I have just blown the cases dry with compressed air when they come out of the tumble and haven't had any issues with rust or corrosion so long as I store them with descant in a sealed container (like a plastic rub). I don't live in a particularly humid area, but it also isn't the desert. I have stored them unsealed in the house (climate controlled, of course) with no rust/corrosion issues.

Recently I started running them through a quick spin in the vibrating cleaner with car wax in the media to see if that allows me to just open store them.

[Noonanda]

I believe that their .223 is boxer primed, but the 7.62x39, 5.45, and 7.62x54r is still Berdan primed. I haven't shot any in a while though so maybe someone can confirm?

.223 range brass is pretty cheap and plentiful, so I haven't tried reloading steel, but if someone made 5.45 boxer primed I would.

I was actually talking about their .45 ACP ammo LOL, forgot to specify caliber. You can make 5.45 out of 222 Remington Brass (not .223) but you would need the dies for it. I sold my 5.45 Dies to a guy in Russia after I traded my AK-74 for a SA 1911 Loaded.

[DEF23]

HOLY SHIITE !!! This thread went sideways quick for a purely informational thread.........LOL !!! Ahhhh.........CalGuns..........

Just like to point out to the OP and others Cal Gunners who have chimed in with their various opinions:

I (like the OP) was/am very curious about all of the same questions and often even others that seemed ridiculous back in the days of limited re-loading technology and knowledge.

Like, why can we NOT re-load Boxer primed ammo ?? How hard is it to convert Berdan primed cases to Boxer ?? Can rim-fire ammo be reloaded too ??

I, myself, like many other new reloaders am interested in saving cost, better usage of my components and trying to do things for myself. So, it's good to know that I can do all of the above listed questions, if I needed to. And if I am going to try to keep an open mind and get a little first hand experience at doing things before I judge them away --- I should try everything for myself.

Who knows, with the state of the worlds current sociopolitical situations --- it's a skill that might have merit and those who are practiced at it would have a definite leg up on the rest of us.

I am reminded of an empty .50-70 Govt. rim-fire casing that I found while I was doing an archaeology contract on 29 palms, once. Some of the local NDN's (Native Americans) had re-loaded and re-fired this casing 17 times !!!

Think about that for a minute, guys.

Do you think that they were trying to make match grade ammo ?? Do you think that they would have kept using that same case over and over, if there were better options ???

But they did it. They found a way to do it and they did it. In the desert, in the 1800's, with no tools, and everyday household materials, they did it. And they successfully did it 15 more times.

That .50-70 Gov't casing is an example of a simple lost technology that many of us today, as home re-loaders, can only hope to achieve. In my mind, it is also in some ways the "Holy Grail" of a 'survivalist re-loader' who intends to be able to re-load regardless of the prevailing conditions.

So, each and every one of us here has our own opinions, reasons and justifications for taking their different reloading interest any number of directions.

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You can make 5.45 out of 222 Remington Brass (not .223) but you would need the dies for it. I sold my 5.45 Dies to a guy in Russia

Where did you get the 5.45 dies from ??? I have been able to find multiple sources of 5.45 bullets, but have yet to find any dies for it.

5.45 would be a definite candidate for justifying re-loading steel cases for as they are almost all boxer primed, even though they are all steel cases (AFAIK).