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So I had another member come over to help me set up my trimmer on my 650 and I found out that my resizing die was not actually bumping the shoulder back enough. We tried using the resizing die and the trim die to get adequate should bump and could not get it. So I sent my dies in to Dillon for them to shave some off the bottom. I just got them back today and they sent the test brass back as well. Those 2 pieces case gauge below flush. So I set up up my resizing die tonight to try to get the same results. Of coarse, I still can't get the shoulder bumped back enough. I've ran the die all the way down until it hits the shell plate and then some ('camming over'). I'm so confused... I don't understand why this thing won't work right. I only have a few pieces of brass that don't case gauge flush, 99% of them already sit flush before resizing them. I've been using 3 pieces, different brands. So I don't think its the brass..... anyone have any suggestions.....
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It's ok to be jealous. We understand your animosity. We live the life you wish you had. And of over 4000 universities and over 1700 division 1 schools, only one is simply known as "The U" -
Very interesting problem as the die should set the shoulder at the proper OAL.
What may be happening is the expander ball is pulling the shoulder forward as you withdraw the case from the die.
Check the expander ball diameter. It should be .222".
Possibly you need to brush the inside of the neck and use a little motor mica for lubrication.
This will reduce how much force is applied to the neck when the ball is pulled back through.
irh
You can run a simple test. Remove the expander ball decapper and size a case. Then check your OAL.Last edited by ironhorse1; 10-30-2013, 9:26 PM. -
Just curious but how are you determining it’s not being bumped back enough? Have you tried chambering the brass?
Case gauge and/or headspace comparator based off brass fired from your rifle(s).
I learned that a case gage can only tell you so much about correct sizing without actually having a comparative measurement to work from. You might not realize that the brass doesn’t NEED to sit flush to be considered correctly sized unless you are intentionally trying to size to SAMMI minimum specifications.ExtremeXComment
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It would be best to compare it to some factory rounds.
I'm sure that Dillon is a very capable supplier of properly made dies.
If the cases will chamber, then they are probably good to go.
Since I'm not there, I can only speculate what may be occurring.
Basic reloading errors are setting back the shoulders when crimping.
Losing case neck tension due to over crimping or seating a bullet too short that has a long ogive.
Having a expander ball that is rough or too large can pull the shoulder forward.
Easily fixed by polishing the ball with 600 grit sandpaper.
These are basic reloader problems with the very short necked .223.
Been doing this for thirty years and sometimes even I have to stop and readjust to get it right.
I had some bullets to test that had a really long ogive. If seated just
.010 of an inch shorter than normal oal the bullet was loose in the case.
If you don't know what ogive is look it up in your manuals.
Every component, may change, what you need to do to produce good, reliable, ammunition.
Have fun and learn from your successes and mistakes.
irhComment
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this makes sense to me.... I will check the size of the expander ball and am gonna take it out and resize a case to see if it'll fit the case gauge then. Thanks
I'm using a Dillon case gauge..... and yes the brass still fires in my gun, but I still want my die to work properly and be able to size as much or as little as I want..... I probably need to use a bump gauge too, but am gonna try to eliminate a few other possibilities first before I spend more moneyIt's ok to be jealous. We understand your animosity. We live the life you wish you had. And of over 4000 universities and over 1700 division 1 schools, only one is simply known as "The U"Comment
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Take that gauge put it on EBay & go shootingComment
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Dillon said it could not be the expander ball pulling the shoulder forward because theirs is carbide.... they said its prob the brass. gonna try a few things tonight... so frustrating...... thanks guysIt's ok to be jealous. We understand your animosity. We live the life you wish you had. And of over 4000 universities and over 1700 division 1 schools, only one is simply known as "The U"Comment
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There are three components in your problem. The die, the shellplate, and the gauge. I think Dillon has ruled out the die. You gauged their test case, so we can reasonably assume that it's not the gauge.
I think you should try a different shellplate next. This piece is probably not held to as tight of a tolerance as either the die or gauge. Even though your die is hitting the shellplate, it's hitting the top surface of it. Your case indexes off of the case bottom surface (not sure what to call it, I hope you know what I mean). Therefore, if this surface is too low, your case will not go all the way into the die, unless you shave more off the die or the top surface of the shellplate. Does this make sense?
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4Comment
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I have the same problem too.... I just screw the sizing dies until it hit the shell plate and add another 1 1/2 to 2 full turns. I put it on the case gauge and it works... I think the Dillion dies is a bit too longComment
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After the die makes contact with shellplate continue turning (1/8 turn) until sized correctly.
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A lot of manufacturers dies are too long to fit in a tight SAAMI gauge. A number of trusted reloader friends have all found this to be the case. One of them sticks his dies in a lathe to fix this. You could fix this by trimming the shell plate, or trimming the die. However you may not have to do either as the gauge is specifically tight for CYA reasons, and your chamber may be bigger. Specifically in the case of .223 I have found gauges to be tighter than chambers, and if you have a rifle chambered in 5.56 your chamber is FAR looser than the .223 gauge that you own. Either toss the gauge or find a gauge that matches your chamber.
Read this thread as one problem may be range brass that you are processing.Last edited by milotrain; 10-31-2013, 3:04 PM.weg: That device is obsolete now. They replaced it with wizards.
frank: Wait a minute. There are more than one wizard? Is [are?] the wizard calibrated?Comment
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Check those brass that wont sit flush, make sure the case heads are not deformed from being pulled by the extractor. Also, you can try to use a sand paper and run it a few times around the case head to make sure theres no burrs.
Those case you have that sits flush before resizing, try to size some and check if it will still sit flush on the gauge.
I had a similar problem when I got a wilson case gauge, and found out that some of my case had deformed case head.
I had some good advice on this thread;
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It's ok to be jealous. We understand your animosity. We live the life you wish you had. And of over 4000 universities and over 1700 division 1 schools, only one is simply known as "The U"Comment
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