pulled bullet gouges...affects accuracy or reloading?

[hambam105]

Like I said, I don't know what the effects are with acetone laced rifle gun powder are. Just so we are clear:
All Reloaders have my permission to use all the house hold cleaning agents on their home loads they desire.

Sherwood Williams for all of your painting and reloading needs. I dig. "I'll see your .308 acetone loads and raise you two Drano .38 Specials".

Milotrain, I know you & all the other posters on this topic mean well. Thanks. I enjoy reading everyone's opinion. Until I can write the words chemical engineering without the assistance of Spell Check I'm sticking with acetone free Reloads, wet or dry.

[Clever]

One ragged whole...and 1" groups at 600 yards...that would be almost good enough to set a world record ,.....if it was one ragged hole instead!! Thats 0.166 moa and taking account for wind I would say...that's crazy.

http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?66015-What-is-the-best-score-fired-in-600-yard-F-class-competition

And....you would better the current world record set in completion by 50%! Now that's simply.....amazing??!?!?


To answer the original question, any changes to the concentricity of the bullet about its axis is surely going to make a bullet less accurate, and a crease in the jacket will affect the concentricty. At high speed rotation any variation or non symmetry about the axis will eventually pull a bullet off course.

I have also achieved this..
Sako TRG 42 338 Lapua Magnum 1:10 Twist
Lapua Brass Fire Formed Trimmed 2.720 (0.002 neck tension)
Federal 215M
Retumbo 93.3gr
300gr Berger OTM .010 Jammed
OAL 3.765
Lands at 3.755
Ogive to base 2.875
Averaging 2875 fps
2 inch groups at 700 yards off sand bags
80 degrees Fahrenheit
Mohave Dessert 2/2011
24"X24" Man Size Metal Plate at 1750
12 shots Landing 4 off sand bags
Don't shoot F-Class, Don't know anyone. I come from a family of rifleman, all from Eastern Europe (Still have family there in the Armed forces, shooting TRG's for a living). I was raised in Los Angeles, been shooting since I can remember. World record and 6mmBR I totally understand, there are Hunters the have shot 1inch groups 6 and 700 yards. There are rifleman all around the world that accomplish amazing accuracy and and Marksmanship. Now do you hear about them? NO.. F-Class shooters NO.. World record Holders NO.. But can and will make shots that will rival world class marksman. You are correct and can make those statements because they are recorded by recognized organizations.. You can copy any paste all day about others .. But can you reload and flat out shoot?..I have been all over the World and I am an unknown. Yes I shoot a FACTORY Sako TRG 42 338 Lapua Magnum.. And yes I have accomplished these shots.. If it's a little far fetched for you it's reality at it's best for me... I would not underestimate a 3 year old.. All due Respect..

CLEVER

[Wrangler John]

I have also achieved this..
Sako TRG 42 338 Lapua Magnum 1:10 Twist
Lapua Brass Fire Formed Trimmed 2.720 (0.002 neck tension)
Federal 215M
Retumbo 93.3gr
300gr Berger OTM .010 Jammed
OAL 3.765
Lands at 3.755
Ogive to base 2.875
Averaging 2875 fps
2 inch groups at 700 yards off sand bags
80 degrees Fahrenheit
Mohave Dessert 2/2011
24"X24" Man Size Metal Plate at 1750
12 shots Landing 4 off sand bags
Don't shoot F-Class, Don't know anyone. I come from a family of rifleman, all from Eastern Europe (Still have family there in the Armed forces, shooting TRG's for a living). I was raised in Los Angeles, been shooting since I can remember. World record and 6mmBR I totally understand, there are Hunters the have shot 1inch groups 6 and 700 yards. There are rifleman all around the world that accomplish amazing accuracy and and Marksmanship. Now do you hear about them? NO.. F-Class shooters NO.. World record Holders NO.. But can and will make shots that will rival world class marksman. You are correct and can make those statements because they are recorded by recognized organizations.. You can copy any paste all day about others .. But can you reload and flat out shoot?..I have been all over the World and I am an unknown. Yes I shoot a FACTORY Sako TRG 42 338 Lapua Magnum.. And yes I have accomplished these shots.. If it's a little far fetched for you it's reality at it's best for me... I would not underestimate a 3 year old.. All due Respect..

CLEVER

I believe you!

Don't take offense at the know-it-all crowd. Some of these folks are benchrest shooters that carry the tiniest groups they have shot in their wallets instead of pictures of kids and grand kids.

This stuff is REALLY important to them, too important. So just go have fun and ignore the ignorant.

[J-cat]

Like I said, I don't know what the effects are with acetone laced rifle gun powder are. Just so we are clear:
All Reloaders have my permission to use all the house hold cleaning agents on their home loads they desire.

Sherwood Williams for all of your painting and reloading needs. I dig. "I'll see your .308 acetone loads and raise you two Drano .38 Specials".

Milotrain, I know you & all the other posters on this topic mean well. Thanks. I enjoy reading everyone's opinion. Until I can write the words chemical engineering without the assistance of Spell Check I'm sticking with acetone free Reloads, wet or dry.

So why are you posting then? If you don't know, don't give advice. I clean sealant out with Brake Cleaner on a Q-tip and have never had any adverse reaction. Gunpowder is coated with carbon which insulates the grains from whatever chemicals may be encountered. Acetone is only a solvent. It does not react with anything or make things unstable. It is highly volatile and will be completely dry before you get any powder in the case.

[milotrain]

Milotrain, I know you & all the other posters on this topic mean well. Thanks. I enjoy reading everyone's opinion. Until I can write the words chemical engineering without the assistance of Spell Check I'm sticking with acetone free Reloads, wet or dry.

You know, thanks for not taking my dickish comments and going off on it. Sorry about my attitude. There is nothing wrong with avoiding things you aren't sure about in terms of chemical contaminants and explosives. That's completely reasonable.

I'll maintain though that in this case you likely won't find contaminants remaining in any quantity that could even be measured. But it is great practice to avoid contaminants in general.

[wxl]

Acetone is widely used in cleaning laboratory equipment since it is a very good solvent and also removes moisture, but the biggest advantage acetone has over water or other solvents is that it evaporates completely leaving no residual chemicals on the laboratory equipment. When the highest level of cleanliness is required many labs wash first with water and detergent and then rinsh with acetone.

[hambam105]

J-Cat,

If you don't know, don't give advice.

do you see any advice from me on this topic?

By the way, where is your degree in Chemical Engineering? What powder company...what reloading manual addresses, promotes or recommends the use of acetone or any other harsh chemical agent for Reloading?

I personally of know half a dozen construction workers who would systematically cleanse there hand tools in the liquid PCBs that came directly out of High Voltage transformers that they would be working on. Back then it was a safe practice because no one died as a result, yet.

I have only been successfully Reloading for .308 Winchester for plus 25 years, that may change with my next range visit. But as of now, I'm totally clueless on the effects of solvents, of all kinds, mixed in the powder for my Reloads. HHmmm. Maybe all the half-inch group shooters have been adding cleaning solvents to their Loads for years now and never told me. Again, I may be clueless, but I do have enough common sense to follow, and not argue with, established safe Reloading procedures outlined in the manual.

Who knows? Maybe the gunpowder manufactures next year will sanction the constructive internal uses of acetone for Reloading purposes. Until then, please do not anticipate a experimental range report from me on the dangers of adding industrial solvents to gunpowder.

[bsumoba]

J-Cat, do you see any advice from me on this topic?

By the way, where is your degree in Chemical Engineering? What powder company...what reloading manual addresses, promotes or recommends the use of acetone or any other harsh chemical agent for Reloading?

I personally of know half a dozen construction workers who would systematically cleanse there hand tools in the liquid PCBs that came directly out of High Voltage transformers that they would be working on. Back then it was a safe practice because no one died as a result, yet.

I have only been successfully Reloading for .308 Winchester for plus 25 years, that may change with my next range visit. But as of now, I'm totally clueless on the effects of solvents, of all kinds, mixed in the powder for my Reloads. HHmmm. Maybe all the half-inch group shooters have been adding cleaning solvents to their Loads for years now and never told me. Again, I may be clueless, but I do have enough common sense to follow and not argue with established safe Reloading procedures outlined in the manual.

Who knows? Maybe the gunpowder manufactures next year will sanction the constructive internal uses of acetone for Reloading purposes. Until then, please do not anticipate a range report from me on the dangers of adding industrial solvents to gunpowder.

we're not adding industrial solvents to gunpowder.

first off, you started getting flack because you made a comment about using acetone to clean boolits, where you don't know the effect yourself so shame on you. what if it was perfectly safe to do so, which by all my estimations, it is okay.

second, we/i am not using acentone IN my bullets. read my post carefully. im sure there are more solvents and other contaminates on the surface of the bullet from the manufacturing and handling process than the acetone residue I would be leaving IF i wasn't wiping them down afterwards with a wet rag. do you know the effects of certain oils from our hands and from everyday products we touch and if they affect gunpowder? i guess we ALL should be reloading in a clean room to ensure NO contaminants because the danger it poses.

>>end rant. debate over.

[kcheung2]

I haven't seen any comments about adding stuff to gunpowder. OP said he used acetone to clean off the projectiles, and that he wipes it clean with a rag afterwards. Others have said it evaporates very quickly anyway. Someone else said brake cleaner on the projectile, applied via q-tip.

Like I said before, I'm a bear of little brain. I'm also not a chemical engineer, nor have I been reloading for 25 years, heck, English isn't even my first language. But I haven't read anything about anyone adding solvents to gunpowder.

[hambam105]

You haven't lived until you see the day when some unknown chemical make-up in a box of perfectly good cartridges produces a chemical reaction with other nearby ammunition manufactured from different componets.

I was lucky. The results occurred within a few weeks and the results were limited to corrosion only. Who knows? Another week, month, year, ten years, a day, I'd had a fire instead of just a few duds, or just limited to corrosion.

Did I mention that I was lucky?

[kcheung2]

I'm not sure I follow this either. An unknown reason caused an unknown chemical reaction, which resulted in corrosion + possibly other unknown consequences, therefore...don't use acetone to wipe tar off projectiles.

I've never bought pulls so never had any tar on projectiles, but what is the preferred method of cleaning it? Or just leave it as is? And isn't the tar equally dangerous as a contaminant to the powder?

[milotrain]

Everyone I know uses isopropyl or acetone to remove it. Rag on the bullets and qtip in the necks.

[hambam105]

QUOTE]An unknown reason caused an unknown chemical reaction, which resulted in corrosion + possibly other unknown consequences,[/QUOTE]

That is correct. I stored two kinds of cartridges of unknown manufactures on the same shelf next to one another. A week or two or three later I had corrosion like you see on the posts of automobile batteries. It was all over vertical metal shelf posts, on a metal ruler and on some 30 or 40 cartridges.

Everything just might have kept corroding or it could have caught fire or it could have stopped as quickly as it started. Who Knows? I must have had some ComBloc 7.62 too close to some South American 9mm. At the time I wasn't smart enough to put 2 and 2 together, but I did remember.

Some time later a real Chemical Engineer heard me tell this story and rang my reloading man cave safety bell a few times.

Arson investigators routinely detect trace amounts of agents like gasoline, lighter fluid, and yes, acetone, in a handful of ashes after a residential or commercial fire. Try dosing a couple dozen bullets in acetone and plug them into a air tight cartridge case packed with gun powder and convince me of no harmful affects. If fire can't cleanse those agents off I don't see what a wet towel is going to do.

Single or double zero steel wool wipes that tar off those bullets in less than 2 seconds flat. Once the cartridge is assembled, hit the exposed bullet again as much as you like to shine them up.

[bsumoba]

That is correct. I stored two kinds of cartridges of unknown manufactures on the same shelf next to one another. A week or two or three later I had corrosion like you see on the posts of automobile batteries. It was all over vertical metal shelf posts, on a metal ruler and on some 30 or 40 cartridges.

Everything just might have kept corroding or it could have caught fire or it could have stopped as quickly as it started. Who Knows? I must have had some ComBloc 7.62 too close to some South American 9mm. At the time I wasn't smart enough to put 2 and 2 together, but I did remember.

Some time later a real Chemical Engineer heard me tell this story and rang my reloading man cave safety bell a few times.

Arson investigators routinely detect trace amounts of agents like gasoline, lighter fluid, and yes, acetone, in a handful of ashes after a residential or commercial fire. Try dosing a couple dozen bullets in acetone and plug them into a air tight cartridge case packed with gun powder and convince me of no harmful affects. If fire can't cleanse those agents off I don't see what a wet towel is going to do.

Single or double zero steel wool wipes that tar off those bullets in less than 2 seconds flat. Once the cartridge is assembled, hit the exposed bullet again as much as you like to shine them up.

I hear ya.....dissimilar metals, chemicals, etc can cause corrosion or other bad effects. However, I think it has been proven that there is no ill effect of using acetone to remove the sealant and to let it dry completely or wipe it down with water. unless you're going to tell me the chlorine in the water is going to have ill effects on gunpowder. maybe people who wet tumble should not wet tumble. who knows...it could cause some dangerous condition!

commenting on using steel wool to remove the sealant.......so you're telling me that you want us to use steel wool that will ultimately remove some of the copper jacket (regardless of how careful you are). you should be careful...the shavings of copper and possible residue of steel on the surface of the bullet might cause a dangerous condition and might scratch and damage your barrel or rifling...

would you use steel wool on a coffee mug to clean it? you might get steel particles in the mug

[J-cat]

What about corn cob dust becoming nitrated and altering he burn rate of the powder, OMG!!!