.38 special and OAL...

[stilly]

So today we shot some .38 special that I helped someone make at their house. We used a 6" and a 2" revolver for them.
I THINK the BoLee stated NOT to go below 1.575 for a load that was around 3.1-3.3gr of HP-38 for a 158gr plated bullet (went by lead I think).

We were at 1.579-1.590 with these rounds.

The cannelure was WELL above the crimp, by about a mm or so.

The average speed that these things were clocked at was around 530 FPS.

Could it be that they needed to be seated a bit more and thus create pressure and a little more speed? the 2" revolver was hitting some as low as upper 400s like, 490 fps or so...

Did I say that all right? I said that we should make some more but seat them a tad deeper and hit that crimp line in the cannelure or a bit closer to it.

[mark501w]

I don't believe adjusting the depth is the way togo for adjusting your velocity start working your load up from there if your not having problems with functioning.

[XDRoX]

Personally I've never measured OAL with 38spl. I always just crimp into the cannelure.
Those are some slow moving bullets you loaded up there. I've never loaded a round that slow.
The proper way to get more velocity is to add powder not the shorten OAL.

[CSACANNONEER]

They must have felt like .22lrs. Use jacketed data for plated bullets.

[bigchinner]

I definitely would use jacketed bullet specs for plated bulletheads. When I started reloading, the Lee pamphlet that came with dies were way higher than my Speer loading book. I was getting "hot" loads with everything I reloaded. My 9mm reloads were hard to control and my 38s from my snubby were very hot. Try to crossreference more than one load book or buy a loadbook from midwayusa.com=>7.00 a book for 38sp.
good luck and be safe.

[stilly]

Thanks guys.

I really do not normally use OAL for velocity adjustments, but I have the opportunity to see how much of a difference it makes and although I totally agree that it needs some more powder in there, I kinda wanna see how much the OAL changes things for the next batch. I thought that HP-38 was the coolest powder ever made but damn, I expected about 800 FPS and we fell WAY short of that so the only thing I can think of is how maybe we DID have them a tad long so it will be nice to see if making them fit in the cannelure works.
Also, yes, I usually DO use jacketed data for plated rounds, but in this case, I think we went with lead to follow the normal load, but yes, jacketed data to be for the next loading possibly. The problem though is that he is using dippers and we used my GEMINI PRO 20G (shameless plug) scale to sample most of the charges (which hit between 3.16-3.3) that cannelure looks a tad hmmm, farther out then I have seen others. Anyways, I guess we will see what happens next.

[JagerDog]

I'm wondering if you're crimping too hard especially outside the cannelure. I don't shoot plated, but my understanding is you can strip the plating off and the bullet is then undersize and not fitting the bore well which would significantly reduce velocity.

That's a pretty light load at any rate. Make sure you don't stick a bullet then fire another one behind it.

If there's a crimp groove, seat to that and work load up from there.

[stilly]

The crimp is not too hard. Yeah it is a roll crimp but we just had it turned on, not cranked down. Well, we might of had it a tad more then light, but not hourglass making tight if you know what I mean.

[JagerDog]

The crimp is not too hard. Yeah it is a roll crimp but we just had it turned on, not cranked down. Well, we might of had it a tad more then light, but not hourglass making tight if you know what I mean.

But the roll crimp has nowhere to go. Something has to give and I'd guess that would be the plating.

The bullet mfg intended you to used the groove.

[CGT80]

I always use the cannelure on 38 spl. and other revolvers. Those speeds seem real slow for that amount of hp-38. I would have expected speeds at least in the 600+ fps range.

I think the COAL may have an effect. Also, the conditions when cronographing could be a factor.

I use lead data for plated and will work up. I will go half way on jacketed data, for plated bullets. It also depends on what speed the jacketed loads are rated at in the load book.

[bigchinner]

the speer manual #13 has LRN 158grn pushing 756fps at 3.6gr which is the starting load and goes to 4.1 at 855fps. This is for lead.
COL tested at 1.510".

[bigchinner]

speer #13 has 158grn LRN at 3.6 low to 4.1 high on HP-38. 3.6 is at 756fps but OAL states 1.510 for the LRN. I'd try crossreferencing and take the middle road and work around it lower or higher. I've reloaded 10 rds with increments of .2gr up and down.

[bigchinner]

Keep us updated stilly

[3006mv]

Please post pix of "cannelure" on plating. Can't say I have ever seen such a creature. Must be pretty shallow.

[stilly]

Wow Things happened rather fast.

He had another 50 ready to go the other night when I showed up to install a linux distro on his garage computer.

We remade some more and we seated the bullets down and crimped on the cannelure.

He shot them out of his new used Ruger with a 4" barrel (as opposed to last time shooting the 6" and the 2") and the average shot was around 630fps I think. I think that might be a bit faster than last time. Of course we only had a 4" barrel this time too.

One of the bullets misfired though. Well, it did a VERY light POP (not even a pop, more like a fast crisp or very fast sizzle) and the bullet got stuck between the forcing cone and the cylinder. Jammed up everything. Me being paranoid we had the gun pointed downrange for about a minute or two. I just knew that it would go off as soon as I put something down the barrel. Turns out that THAT one load might have gotten bumped durring loading and knocked out some of the powder. The primer had popped out a thousandth or two and it was all black inside. I am thinking that we need to make another one of those and see if we can dupicate it. Finally afterwards he mentioned that he had noticed powder on the bench and he had not spilled any and was wondering where it came from, but in moving one of the shells to the holder it got flicked/bumped and possibly lost some powder.

We sacrificed a pencil to push it back in and continued shooting. Now he knows. I will get some photos next time. We also wanna get some of those extreme wadcutters and load them up as well. He has some of the 158gr barrel looking bullets and wants to give them a shot.

I of course shot my 800-x 45 acp 230gr and was fairly accurate even out to about 120yards. They were flying around 870 fps.

He wants to make some more of those 38s so next time I will get a few photos.