.40 S&W Expanding, Seating, and Taper Crimp Problems

[Yerman]

I am reloading some recently acquired .40 S&W 180gr RNFP Extreme Bullets and having a few problems.

After expanding the case, seating the bullets, and giving them a light tamper crimp, I am still able to push the bullets in with my finger. I can give them more of a taper crimp but I am concerned about putting too much pressure on the plating.

I called Extreme Bullets this morning but they told me to look in a Speer manual and gave me no additional information.

I currently have a Lyman and Hornady manual and I am seating to a depth of 1.115 based on a 180gr hollow point from the Lyman manual that is the closest I can find to the Extreme bullets that I am loading.

I am wondering if I am seating too deep and if I had more of the bullet up higher if the bullet would crimp a little better.

Can anyone with a Speer Manual give me the OAL for a 180gr FMJ? This is the load data that I was told to get by Extreme Bullets.

Any additional input would also be appreciated.

Thanks.

P.S. I am using the Hornady Taper Crimp 3-die set on a Hornady LNL Press

[BigBronco]

This happens to us a while back
Turned out to be an oversized resizing die. A different sizer then ultimately a new one from Dillon solved the issue. It was most noticeable with Federal brass.

[jglabe]

Could be that your expander is set too deep. You only want to expand the case mouth enough to get the bullet in without shaving off the plating.

[XDRoX]

You need too lower the sizing die.

[ExtremeX]

I wouldn’t focus too much on the crimp die… Crimp for pistol ammo should only remove belling from the case, and should look very much like factory ammo when done. The crimp isn’t what holds the bullet in place, case tension should be sufficient to hold the bullet even before the crimp.

I would verify the setup first, and if you are still having problems, maybe try a new sizing die incase yours is out of spec but I would assume that is a rare problem and I haven't encountered that myself.

What is the case OD after sizing?

[Yerman]

After sizing, OD is 0.4200

[Paperchasin]

I am reloading some recently acquired .40 S&W 180gr RNFP Extreme Bullets and having a few problems.

After expanding the case, seating the bullets, and giving them a light tamper crimp, I am still able to push the bullets in with my finger. I can give them more of a taper crimp but I am concerned about putting too much pressure on the plating

As others have mentioned, it isn't the crimp. So don't worry about that. Can you elaborate some more on the part where you can "push the bullets in with my finger?" Do you mean that you are able to seat the bullet deeper simply with your hand/fingers?

In terms of OAL, I aim for 1.125".

[Yerman]

ok...I think I might have found the problem.

I grabbed a few Berry's Bullets I have sitting around and loaded a few rounds with the dies set as they are. No problems what so ever. As hard as I can push, the bullet does not move.

So I grabbed my calipers and the average diameter of the Berry's bullets are 0.4010 and the Extreme Bullets are averaging at 0.3990.

Could it be that the Extreme Bullets are out of spec? Maybe they didn't plate them enough?

[OCD41911]

All brands of bullets have slight differences between them. Each time I load a new brand I measure/weigh them to see the differences and if necessary compensate accordingly.

[ExtremeX]

You sure the calipers are up to the task?

I don’t have any 40 but I measured my 9mm and I get exactly what is started on their website.

.355 on the dot for the 9mm measuring from the flats of the calipers… spot checked like 10 per box and everything was the same.

Xtreme has been pretty consistent with all the stuff I've been getting. Sorry, don’t have any 40 to check for you.

[Yerman]

All brands of bullets have slight differences between them. Each time I load a new brand I measure/weigh them to see the differences and if necessary compensate accordingly.

Thanks for the reply. I'm more worried about the smaller diameter of the Extreme Bullets creating my problem, not necessarily the differences between them.

[BLR81]

Thanks for the reply. I'm more worried about the smaller diameter of the Extreme Bullets creating my problem, not necessarily the differences between them.

The SAAMI spec for bullet diameter for 40 S&W is .4005. Your bullets may be .001 undersized but you die probably isn't exactly that number either.

I'd tell you to measure the inside of some resized case mouths, but your caliper probably has at least .001 +/- variance also.

Measure you cases before you seat the bullet, and then after. The after should be larger.

My guess is that your over belling the case mouth and not crimping them back enough. You said your using a LNL Press, (single stage or AP)?

[OCD41911]

The SAAMI spec for bullet diameter for 40 S&W is .4005. Your bullets may be .001 undersized but you die probably isn't exactly that number either.

I'd tell you to measure the inside of some resized case mouths, but your caliper probably has at least .001 +/- variance also.

Measure you cases before you seat the bullet, and then after. The after should be larger.

My guess is that your over belling the case mouth and not crimping them back enough. You said your using a LNL Press, (single stage or AP)?

Agreed. You are most likely over expanding the case.

[J-cat]

No, it's the bullet diameter. I'm seeing the same issue with certain bullets, like Speer TMJ. I bought a Lee U die. It sizes the case more and solves that problem.

[BLR81]

No, it's the bullet diameter. I'm seeing the same issue with certain bullets, like Speer TMJ. I bought a Lee U die. It sizes the case more and solves that problem.

I have over 500 brand new Winchester 40 S&W cases. A random sampling of 20 of them shows an inside diameter of between .388-.391. There is no way that a bullet that measures .395 will not be held tightly enough if the cases are resized that size.

Those cases will not fit into my Lee sizing die without use of the press so the die is even smaller than that size. Since it's highly unlikely that the sizing die is too large, Unless he's using a 45 cal die, then the only possible explanation is that the case mouth was enlarged too much after it was resized.

The only other explanation is that he mixed up his unsized cases with his sized cases and the case was never resized to begin with.