Why Dillon not good

[rksimple]

I hear and see this but do not understand it. Today I loaded 150 rounds of .223 Rem on my 550B. Set the load at 22.0gr of H322 and after 150 it still measured 22.0gr exactly (a couple of midway checks were also right on). Of course, different powders may affect this but I get the same accurate result for H322, Varget and several pistol powders. I do not know how to explain why some cannot achieve acceptable powder accuracy with the Dillon.

Try some 4064 or 3031 through it. Those are some that give me the larger spreads. Most ball powders or short cut extruded powders do very well.

[uscbigdawg]

Do you happen to know if they use the standard powder measure to charge the cases though?


I seriously have thought of rigging up a RCBS Chargemaster with a long funnel to my 650.

The Palma team uses the standard Dillon powder measures. Tubb uses a Prometheus added on to his 550. If you don't know what a Prometheus is, just know it's a $2k powder measure.

No powder measure, other than a Prometheus is going to get you closer than .1-.2 grains per charge weight. Even the fancy Harrett's are the same and guess what, that's what the Dillon's will do too. I throw a huge charge of Varget on a 650 and my SD's are under 5 for my 223 load and that's knockin' 'em out as fast as I can, but at the same time being smooth and doing the same motion each time.

A trick that some have done to "help" (if only psychologically) to "improve" the performance of the powder measures is to polish the baffle area so that powder falls into the powder bar more easily and therefore more consistently. Again, folks say it works better, I haven't found a need to.

Hope that helps.

Rich

ETA: And to refute your statement, I get the same measurement of Varget (25.0gr) EVERY TIME.

[StraightShooter]

The Palma team uses the standard Dillon powder measures. Tubb uses a Prometheus added on to his 550. If you don't know what a Prometheus is, just know it's a $2k powder measure.

No powder measure, other than a Prometheus is going to get you closer than .1-.2 grains per charge weight. Even the fancy Harrett's are the same and guess what, that's what the Dillon's will do too. I throw a huge charge of Varget on a 650 and my SD's are under 5 for my 223 load and that's knockin' 'em out as fast as I can, but at the same time being smooth and doing the same motion each time.

A trick that some have done to "help" (if only psychologically) to "improve" the performance of the powder measures is to polish the baffle area so that powder falls into the powder bar more easily and therefore more consistently. Again, folks say it works better, I haven't found a need to.

Hope that helps.

Rich

ETA: And to refute your statement, I get the same measurement of Varget (25.0gr) EVERY TIME.

Hmm, looks like i need to figure out if im doing something wrong then. Thanks for the info.

[Rangerat]

There is no way in hell you are getting perfect measuring with varget every time. I can understand you get very close with H322 and pistol powders though. Like i said earlier, i use my 650 to load .223 and 9mm but from my experience, the more powder you try to measure at once with the dillon measure the more inaccurate it gets. In my opinion its not "IDEAL" for precision loads in its stock configuration. I believe the OP is asking in regards to .308 caliber and not smaller calibers such as .223 and pistol calibers where the metering isnt as much of an issue.

Just my .02

Obviously, my experience with Varget is different than yours.

[anyracoon]

I have had good results on my Dillon powder measures using ball powder. Varget is another story. On my 550 I use a RCBS powder measure with the micro-dial and their case activated linkage. Works great! Plus with the micrometer you go right to a previous setting and check the weight and go!

[Paratus et Vigilans]

I have a Dillon XL 650 and reload lots of calibers on it, .223 and .308 among them. For plinking rounds, I just crank away and have no problems getting loads that are +/- 0.1 grains. I mostly use AA 2520 for plinking ammo for .223 and .308.

For my match loads, here's what I do: I remove the index pin from the bullet seating station, and before I seat the bullet at that station, I pull out the charged case, dump the powder charge into the pan on my digital scale, and then scoop out a few morsels of Varget or trickle in a few extra morsels with a Redding powder trickler until I'm right on my desired load weight, then I use a Franklin powder funnel and long drop tube to re-charge the case, put it back in the shell holder, put the bullet on top, pull the handle to raise the shell holder and seat it, and then move on and repeat the process until I have the number of match rounds I need to load in that session. Works fine for me. Seems to be the most efficient way of getting the most exact powder charge while still retaining the most out of the efficiency of the 650's progressive design. If I had a scale/powder unit that spit out an exact charge each time, I'd probably use that at that station and leave the powder reservoir on the auto powder dispenser empty but still run the rounds through it to get the slight bell at the case mouth to make it easier to seat the bullet two stations later. I don't use the powder check station on my press, so that's just an open hole in the tool head regardless of which way I'm loading, match or plinking.

I should add that I'm not a good enough shooter to notice the effect of a +/- 0.1 grain difference in the charge, but figure what the heck, might as well eliminate that as an excuse for a bad day on the firing line so I know that my poorly placed rounds are NOT because of a variance in the charge.

[ar15barrels]

All I'll say is this. The US Palma team and David Tubb load there ammo on a Dillon XL650 and 550B respectively. The Palma team in 308 and David Tubb in 6XC (modified 22-250, although now you can get the brass) and I think their records and performance speak for themselves.

Do you happen to know what powders they are running?

[eaglemike]

A progressive press can be a problem for rifle ammo, but not necessarily because of powder variation.

Rifle brass stretches more than most hand gun brass. The correct sequence for a lot of "traditional" rifle loaders using a progressive press would be to:
size cases
inspect and trim as needed
then run them through the progressive

I still have one of the few Star rifle presses made. One of Dillon's early efforts was making a conversion for the Star handgun press press to load .223.

all the best,

Mike

[draconianruler]

As others said, the big thing holding the Dillon back is the powder dispensor for extruded powder. I was getting huge differences and thought my dispensor was busted at first. So now, I just removed the Dillon powder dispensor and use a table mounted RCBS one. I then throw the charge in a funnel through the dispensing die. You can also buy an adaptor to fit another powder dispensor on the machine.

[Ahhnother8]

Why Dillon not good
I have been told by many people:
Do not get a DILLON if you want to reload 308 for rifle.

Why? Please support your arguments
Thanks

It depends what you expect out of your rifle and ammo. And what you are going to be doing with it. Reloading and handloading are two different things entirely!! As mentioned, it also greatly depends upon the powder to be used.

So, what accuracy is the rifle capable of? What level of accuracy are YOU capable of? What level of accuracy do you wish to attain? How far will you be shooting? How much time and money do you have to test? What brass, primer, bullet, and powder will you use? Are you a proficient handloader now? Will you be loading thousands of rounds a year? I'm not being an &$$ here. It ALL matters, and many people jump in and buy a lot of stuff that is useless and/or not suitable for what they want to do. Conversely, why buy the best stuff if the target is tin cans at 50 yards?

There is some great advice in this thread, and some creative solutions to making a progressive press turn out match-grade ammo. I am with those who cannot meter Varget plus or minus .3 grains, and often up to .5 grains, with a BR30 meter. And 4350 and 4064 are a total nightmare. That is why a GREAT scale is mandatory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by uscbigdawg View Post
All I'll say is this. The US Palma team and David Tubb load there ammo on a Dillon XL650 and 550B respectively. The Palma team in 308 and David Tubb in 6XC (modified 22-250, although now you can get the brass) and I think their records and performance speak for themselves.

Do you happen to know what powders they are running?

Tubb was using H4350 in the 6XC, but not even sure he is using that cartridge any more. He was also using his Tubb 115 grain bullets, but some didn't make it to the target at Raton, so think he has bailed on them too.

For the U.S. Palma Team, each shooter loads his own ammo. We shot the Sierra 155 bullet at between 2950 and 3000 fps. Some of us shot a little faster than that to find a better load, but the coaches didn't want too much variation on that velocity range. Most use Varget, but there were also a couple with 4895 and N540. I have only used Varget, and measure to .02 grains. And EVERY lot of Varget is different. Some have even said there is variation between each jug???

Big help to the OP, eh?

Lane
2007 U.S. Palma Team
2008 CA State Champion - Palma
2008 CA State Champion - Fullbore
2008 U.S. Touring Team

[rolly]

thank you for your inputs !!!!!!!!!

[Ugly Dwarf]

I should add that I'm not a good enough shooter to notice the effect of a +/- 0.1 gram difference in the charge, but figure what the heck, might as well eliminate that as an excuse for a bad day on the firing line so I know that my poorly placed rounds are NOT because of a variance in the charge.

I suspect this was a misstatement but, for what it's worth, I suspect you are a good enough shooter to notice the difference of .1 gram. I find that +/- .1 grain is tougher to spot.

I'll not pile on too much to what others have said about the Dillon. I have had great personal experience with using ball and flake powders in the two 550B's I've used. Extruded powders have not metered as well for me (decent, but not great), so I have worked to find powders that both play to the strength of the equipment and still work well in my guns.

Some day I may measure charges one by one, but not until I have much more free time than I do now. Throwing +/- .1 grains in my .223's and .3 grains in my .300 Wby (70+ grain charges) is "close enough" for me.

[Paratus et Vigilans]

I suspect this was a misstatement but, for what it's worth, I suspect you are a good enough shooter to notice the difference of .1 gram. I find that +/- .1 grain is tougher to spot.

YIKES! Yes, I meant to say grains, not grams!!!

Open mouth, insert foot!

Thanks for the catch!

[rolly]

It depends what you expect out of your rifle and ammo. And what you are going to be doing with it. Reloading and handloading are two different things entirely!! As mentioned, it also greatly depends upon the powder to be used.

So, what accuracy is the rifle capable of? What level of accuracy are YOU capable of? What level of accuracy do you wish to attain? How far will you be shooting? How much time and money do you have to test? What brass, primer, bullet, and powder will you use? Are you a proficient handloader now? Will you be loading thousands of rounds a year? I'm not being an &$$ here. It ALL matters, and many people jump in and buy a lot of stuff that is useless and/or not suitable for what they want to do. Conversely, why buy the best stuff if the target is tin cans at 50 yards?

rifle capable of: I do not know yet: it is a remington VTR 700 with badger rings/base and Mark4 m1 scope: it should be very accurate


my level of accuracy:

• iam just back into the game. I used to shoot in the army up to 300 yards with a FRF1 (7.62 NATO) and 100 yards (bulleyes only)
  with FAMAS (5.56). I had a very good accuracy...now that was 15 years ago.
• I went last weekend to shoot 100 yards (all holes touching each other)

What level i want to attain: BEST as possible (i hate mediocrity)
How far? it will depends my skills. I will go step by step.


How much time and money do you have to test? talk to my wife !
What brass, primer, bullet, and powder will you use? I do not know (yet)
Are you a proficient handloader now? NO AT ALL
Will you be loading thousands of rounds a year? YES

[BamBam-31]

I found the more I loaded, the better my 650 got. Same thing goes for my Lee Classic Turret. When my Rockchucker gets here, I'm guessing it'll be the same w/ that as well. Kinda like how my Glocks shoot so much better now than they did when I first got them.

Blue, red, green, black, I'm for diversity, man. Peace and love, brother.