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Small scale & quality rig?

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  • #16
    afrancke
    Member
    • Jul 2004
    • 147

    I agree with buy once, cry once - and I think that should be applied in the following order of priority:

    1) dies
    2) powder measure
    3) press
    4) brass cleaning solution

    The dies you will have forever. There is no need to ever get rid of them - you might buy more, but unless you stop loading for a particular caliber, they stay - so buy good ones. There will be plenty of voices that say all dies are just fine and make quality ammo (including Lees). Even so, let's just take a micrometer seater as an example - this is VERY helpful for dialing in the depth you are after (and depths on either side if you are playing with jump/jam) vs. screwing the die in or out and tightening the lock ring again.

    Powder measuring solution is hard to go super cheap on. If you want to go ultralight, try dippers (but of course with this or any other volumetric solution you'll need a balance as well to convert to/from charge weights). I have not used dippers but conceptually they seem fine to me (apart from the potentially agonizing slow measuring time). You will eventually break down and buy a powder drop - and I think the minimum you'll spend for one you won't hate is probably in the $75 - 100 range. Anything north of that doesn't buy you a whole lot more precision (and I say that as a Harrell's owner). A balance or scale is no-go for the range unless you have a sheltered area to load in (and an infinite supply of batteries if you use the GemPro that is pretty popular - that is a real battery hog). I was personally quite frustrated with those and will stick solely to a drop at the range.

    Press, to me, is something you can go cheap on for a single-stage bench mount and not live to regret it. For the price of a Lee, you can buy once, discard or (more likely) keep around for decapping later when you buy the Forster (and this is a great press, but really there is nothing wrong for what you want to do with an RCBS or anything else). Arbor presses don't come cheap, at least relative to single stage presses at any rate. At least you'll never really need to upgrade one. I've seen a super luxe one advertised that is a combo arbor press and single stage die press (the single stage bit being for resizing) but it was pretty dear and I already had the Forster so I didn't bite.

    Finally, cleaning. Lots of solutions, but ultimately one of the key operations will be getting the lube off your resized cases. Tumbling in corn cob or walnut is what you want for this, so if you have to buy one solution, make it this one. Later you can add a wet tumbler or an ultrasonic solution or whatever if you like. I have heard varying opinions about the quality of vibratory tumblers in the $50 - 100 range, but you don't need large volume with the type of operation you're describing and that alone will help keep the price down; the big tumblers are much more $$$.

    I don't think you can reasonably come in at $300 for equipment and have stuff you'll care to keep - or much of it - as you decide to upgrade or add other things. Let's say half of that are dies - $150 or so. The powder drop and balance are another $200, the press perhaps $150 (or buy the RCBS supreme kit for all of that @ $350 or so). Tumbler + media for maybe another $50 - 100 and now you're talking about $600. There are a bunch of other tools which you may or may not already have (calipers, RCBS precision micrometer, deburring tool, lube) that will add on another $100 - 200 or so by the time you add it all up.

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    • #17
      Germz
      Vendor/Retailer
      • Apr 2013
      • 4691

      Personally I am going to get a giraud trimmer here soon. it cuts, chamfers, and deburs in one pass. Do 100 rounds with a Lee cutter + ball grip first and you'll understand the pain...the money is worth it.
      Retired Account

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      • #18
        afrancke
        Member
        • Jul 2004
        • 147

        The Giraud trimmer is just one of many expensive must haves. I'd say ultimately a Dillon or other progressive with case feeder is right up there. But start slow and master single stage - you will be very glad you did (because all knowledge transfers right over to the progressive and you will confidently adjust all dies knowing how they are "supposed" to be set up).

        Ultimately you will start buying things that save you time (and the progressive is just one of these; single stage press with some sort of quick-change solution like the Forster or LNL or what have you is in the same vein, as is the Giraud, a SuperSwage, Chargemaster, etc.). The time it takes to load a round is not viewed initially as a big deal but at some point it will be - and that's when it really gets expensive - so enjoy low cost loading while you can stomach it!

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        • #19
          stilly
          I need a LIFE!!
          • Jul 2009
          • 10685

          Originally posted by bobgengeskahn
          Hello all,

          I have recently finished an AR15 SPR rig and I'm also looking to pick up a bolt action before the end of the year. So recently I've been consumed with the idea of trying to reach out to 1000 with a 5.56 platform.

          After doing research I've figured out that to do this well, you need to reload (hot and heavy). So I am looking to get into some small volume reloading of 5.56 that will produce quality ammo without breaking the bank. Right now I am testing the water and I don't mind hand reloading since I'm only looking for small volume, and I also don't have room for a progressive (apartment) so I'm probably looking at a "kitchen table" set up.

          I've been looking at the Lee Classic as well as a few different single stage set ups including the Lee Hand Press and traditional bench mounted single stages.

          What are your recommendations?

          Also, in the next few days I am wanting to pick up a reloading manual, is there a difference between getting one over another? I was thinking of just getting the Lyman since its cheap on Amazon and I have seen a few people recommend it.
          First of all you need to know the tools you are talking about. It is not a 1337 club or anything but the Lee Hand Press CAN get most pistol jobs done. The problem is that the Hand Press should come with a label, ONLY RELOAD WITH ME IN AN EMERGENCY. If you start reloading and pick up a hand press you are going to HATE it. Especially for a .223. It would be like riding a bike up and down hills to work that is about 35 miles away every day. WHY do that to yourself? Just get a car. This is where the Lee CLASSIC CAST press comes into play. The Lee Classic Cast has a solid reputation and by far is a favorite of MANY folks. Especially those that are new to reloading and wanna wet their feet. You can use it as the entry press that allows you to go medium speed or as slow as you want. Take out the AI rod and you have a single press with a manually indexed turret. I primed about 300+ .45 ACP tonight with that. Just sizing and priming. Next I will put the rod back in and make all of those into some 800x loads.

          The hand press is nice because if you get the Lee Universal Decapper you can decap brass in front of the tv or anywhere you want (where allowed) but if you run a vibratory tumbler then you might not care about decapping until the sizing stage. Personally if you are looking for ACCURATE rifle ammo I would suggest a single stage from either RCBS or Lee or Lyman. Personally though I will be reloading my .223 and .308 on my Lee Classic Cast. I want to plink, not spend all night making super accurate ammo that is same hole at 50 yards... The turret allows me to do that (be fast) and clearly it is very accurate ammo too because I LOVE it and I can take out an inch sticker at 25' with mah 1911.

          Another thing to consider is your money situation. I really hate Dillon because they have more fanbois then any other press but some folks do not care to spend an arm and a leg and a left nut just to START reloading. I say get a Lee Classic Turret and buy once and be happy that you did. No crying after buying a Lee Classic Cast. Nothing but smiles and then you make your first rounds... BTW, progressives do not have to be massive and take up a lot of space. That is all just marketing. You can get an RCBS single stage and then get a piggy back press updater kit and make it into a progressive later on. I of course will stay with my LCT for a bit longer though. What can I say, I have thought about leaving it for a better press, but changing calibers is so easy AND CHEAP compared to others it is really hard to leave it.
          7 Billion people on the planet. They aint ALL gonna astronauts. Some will get hit by trains...

          Need GOOD SS pins to clean your brass? Try the new and improved model...



          And remember- 99.9% of the lawyers ruin it for the other .1%...

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