Thoughts on Frangibles?

[addicted2sp33d]

So I was at Turner's this afternoon and saw some very interesting ammo on the shelves: DRT .45ACP JHP Frangibles!

I live in lowest-bidder-construction drywall homes that are only about 6-feet apart, so a regular FMJ or JHP would easily go through several walls and end up in my neighbor's wall, assuming it doesn't do anything worse.

I saw frangibles on the Discovery Channel or History Channel or one of those educational channels and I like the idea of less unintended over-penetration on misses.

Then I found this video on Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIq86uI5gLY

Now I'm really tempted to pick some up. What have your experiences with frangibles been? I picked up one round and noticed the frangible was noticeably lighter (only 150 grains), but it reportedly has over 1200fps muzzle velocity.

What do you think?

[huckberry668]

Chime in here Lordres.

I bought 20k rounds of the Remington 9mm frangible in both 90 and 100gr when Midway had a sale. 'Lordres' nailed up some drywall sheets and tested with the 90gr. It "went thru 4 layers like it was tissue', was his exact words.

The video showed a different type of frangible (not completely sintered) shooting into water based gelatin to simulate flesh, not drywall. If you're hitting flesh, over-penetration may not be as big a problem?

The key word is 'over-penetration'. Solid or jacketed would 'over-penetrate'. Sintered or frangible would not penetrate as much. But it all depends on what it hits.

[SonofWWIIDI]

I have some for my 9, but have never used it. If you are concerned about over penetration, I think a better test would to set up to pieces of Sheetrock 5-6 feet apart with a piece if cardboard behind the second piece, and fire a round through them to see what happens. Definately at close range, since that would probably better mimic a home defense situation.

[stilly]

WHOA!

They had DRT ammo? The ammo with the chicks or guys on the box? in .45 ACP EVEN? WHERE!

DRT stood for Dead Right There when they advertised it at first, it was like shooting a barrel of powdered lead at someone and the powder is stabilized until it hits, once it hits it throws the lead EVERYWHERE and creates a massive wound channel. I remember when CTD was selling this stuff for 1.50 a round or something when it first came out. If I recall correctly though they had it in 9mm and in .223 only, then they started adding more calibers.

The only thing I hated was that CTD sold it. I liked the premise of it, so if these are the REAL DRT rounds then they are supposedly badass. But if they are just called DRT and they are actually just hollowpoints or frangible then whoopty doo. Okay, so these might be the real deal. These were supposed to be cool...

[CEDaytonaRydr]

We started using them in the military for testing and target practice. At the time, I think they were cheaper and there was the perception that they were safer in a training scenario, due to less chance of ricochet.

They shot fine! I qualified as "Expert" on the M9 with frangibles.

In a home defense scenario, I'm sure if you hit someone with a frangible, they'd be leaving you alone afterwards...

It might even help your defense, if you were to say "I bought this ammo because it was less lethal. I didn't WANT to hurt anyone." I don't know for sure about that, so maybe a more qualified legal expert can weigh in.

[stilly]

The only reason why I would run frangible in the house would be for the overpenetration issue. Right now I have FTX loaded in the .357 but I would consider having a mag or two filled with DRT for the Operator.

Personally, I would rather buy my own bullets and make my rounds myself.

[addicted2sp33d]

Yeah, these are Jacketed Hollow Points, but instead of the usual 180 grain, these are only 150 grain.

The company is DRT: http://store.drtammo.com/drtterminal...5acp150gr.aspx

They have a VERY sharp crown and they cut absolutely perfectly round holes in the paper - with no perimeter cracking. If I didn't make the holes myself, I would have guessed that someone took a paper hole punch to the target. I'm not sure what happens afterwards, but the jacket is very thin and I would imagine they deform VERY easily.

They feed fine and I did not have any malfunctions with my P220; though only pushed about 10-15 rounds of this stuff. I ran one blended magazine where the rounds alternated between the FMJ and Frangibles and everything cycled perfectly.

I don't have anywhere convenient to line up a bunch of drywall to test over-penetration, but my uncalibrated recoil gauge (my arm) thinks the powder might be a little lighter. It was noticeable to me in the "blended" magazine test.

At 30 yards, the rounds were dropping about 6" from my regular 230 grain FMJ groups, but they were doing this consistently. This could also have been me flinching, so without a more consistent shooter, I can't confirm that they really fall faster. They supposedly have a muzzle velocity in the 1200 fps range.

They are about the same as regular JHP in cost-per-round, but I like the idea of less over-penetration on misses.

I think I like them.

9mm test: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7oaPjZcWtY

I saw them at Turner's in San Marcos and only in .45ACP.

[stilly]

That is good stuff.
Get it before it gets labeled black talon and gets banned by whatever stupid politician flavor of the month...

[Loopwell]

I did a search and this was the most relevant thread. Anyways, I read a review on this DRT stuff from chuckhawks (just do a srarch for the link) and they found the ammo to be highly accurate. However, they had the same penetration /frangible issue on different types of targets, including water, plywood, dirt. It was however an inconclusive test because they were unable to text frangibility on actual tissue.

[CEDaytonaRydr]

I did a search and this was the most relevant thread.

Doesn't matter. Someone is going to yell at you a few posts from now about how this is a "necrothread".

Just ignore them. They have no lives, and are more to be pitied than scorned...

Anyways, I read a review on this DRT stuff from chuckhawks (just do a srarch for the link) and they found the ammo to be highly accurate. However, they had the same penetration /frangible issue on different types of targets, including water, plywood, dirt. It was however an inconclusive test because they were unable to text frangibility on actual tissue.

I can personally attest to the accuracy. It shot every bit as accurately as the ball ammo that we shot in the military.

As for a home defense scenario, it might be something to look at if you have kids, or share a wall with a neighbor (that you actually like ). That being said, I wouldn't bank on it NOT penetrating. If you hit your intended target with a frangible bullet, he's not going to stick around to see what else you've got.