Need help with 223 reloading

[GeoffLinder]

Does this expander ball make it any easier to load flat bottom bullets?

No, expander balls do not create flare on a case nor do they provide a beveled lead in.

[GeoffLinder]

You're correct that you must use their crimp die with sizing die, but incorrect in assuming it is "flaring".

Their expander ball is one thousands bigger than a conventional die set, so you need to use their crimp die to properly hold the bullet in place. This is the same case with lee pacesetter die sets as well.

I have not found that to be the case. The Dillon expander ball is .222 and this will provide a .002 interference fit with a .224 diameter bullet which is quite good enough for this task.

I have loaded umpteen thousands of .223 rounds using the Dillon size dies, both single stage and in a progressive and I have not applied crimp and had no setback or neck tension issues.

[Bumslie]

I have not found that to be the case. The Dillon expander ball is .222 and this will provide a .002 interference fit with a .224 diameter bullet which is quite good enough for this task.

I have loaded umpteen thousands of .223 rounds using the Dillon size dies, both single stage and in a progressive and I have not applied crimp and had no setback or neck tension issues.

Ones I've come across have.

Eta. Is your set the one that included the crimp die? Because if it came with one, that would be the case

[GeoffLinder]

Ones I've come across have.

Eta. Is your set the one that included the crimp die? Because if it came with one, that would be the case

Measure the expander ball, if it's .222 or under in diameter there is no need for a crimp. If it's over .222 by any amount whatsoever, chuck it into a drill and polish it with ultra fine emery cloth and then some flitz polishing compound until it's .222 or less and move on. An ideal final diameter for any expander ball is .2215" with a max diameter of .22199999999999.........

An interference fit of .002 or more is all that is needed. If your expander ball does not do that, fix it.

Crimp is NOT a substitute for this, never has been, never will be and I get tired of hearing stories about needing to crimp from reloaders who don't understand this.

All 3 die sets come with a crimp die, this does NOT mean you HAVE to use it. If the Mfgr has not provided the "proper" diameter expander ball, then this needs to be addressed other than with crimp. Crimping is a bandaid solution for a problem that should not exist if you properly understand AND control your process AND use your measuring tools. End of story here.

[Bumslie]

Measure the expander ball, if it's .222 or under in diameter there is no need for a crimp. If it's over .222 by any amount whatsoever, chuck it into a drill and polish it with ultra fine emery cloth and then some flitz polishing compound until it's .222 or less and move on. An ideal final diameter for any expander ball is .2215" with a max diameter of .22199999999999.........

An interference fit of .002 or more is all that is needed. If your expander ball does not do that, fix it.

Crimp is NOT a substitute for this, never has been, never will be and I get tired of hearing stories about needing to crimp from reloaders who don't understand this.

All 3 die sets come with a crimp die, this does NOT mean you HAVE to use it. If the Mfgr has not provided the "proper" diameter expander ball, then this needs to be addressed other than with crimp. Crimping is a bandaid solution for a problem that should not exist if you properly understand AND control your process AND use your measuring tools. End of story here.

Whoa whoa whoa. I never once said you need to crimp. So calm down. Just offering insight on a question. My answer would have been the to sand it down too, which is what I did for the lee die set.

That being said, if they want to crimp, let them. Just the the pistol brass trimming question, just let them. There is more than one way to reload.

[Colt562]

There is more than one way to reload.

This x10000000000

[GeoffLinder]

Whoa whoa whoa. I never once said you need to crimp. So calm down. Just offering insight on a question. My answer would have been the to sand it down too, which is what I did for the lee die set.

That being said, if they want to crimp, let them. Just the the pistol brass trimming question, just let them. There is more than one way to reload.

Actually you did state the following

"You're correct that you must use their crimp die with sizing die"

There is no such thing as "must" for this specific situation, there is only a lack of understanding of the process that would make anyone think they "must" crimp at all OR use a "specific" mfgr's crimp die with a "specific" mfgr's size die for bottleneck rifle cartridge loading.

And there really is NOT more than one way to "reload" if you want to do it right. There may be multiple ways to achieve a "correct" end result in some processes, but they need to be ways that properly address the requirements of that process, not compensate for them with a bandaid fix.

The devil is in the details

[Bumslie]

If the expander ball is oversized, please explain how, without modifying the expander ball, he's going to get the bullet properly seated in place without any setback after he chambers the round.

[jj805]

If the expander ball is oversized, please explain how, without modifying the expander ball, he's going to get the bullet properly seated in place without any setback after he chambers the round.

This ^. I had this issue at the VC reloading workshop yesterday. You could push the projectile into the case by simply turning the adjustment knob on the seating die. You could also tap the projectile down by merely bumping it against a hard surface, like a wooden bench. You have to crimp at that point. I have modified my expander ball since then, so it won't happen in the future, but the 1000 pieces of brass that I have that were sized before I modified my expander ball will need to be crimped.

[CGT80]

You don't need to flare the case ASSUMING you are running Jwords and not boolits. I cast my own boolits for 30-06 and 30-30 and I do flare the case to prevent shaving lead from the boolit.

I loaded up some flat base jacketed bullets in 223 for my brother and it only required chamfering or deburring the inside of the case mouth.

I was actually wondering if there is a such thing as a Dillon powder funnel that will slightly flare the case mouth of a 30 cal rifle cartridge. Right now I use an RCBS neck expander die in the first station of the dillon 550. My brass is previously sized on the dillon and then tumbled to remove lube and swaged and trimmed off the press. Some people use cast and gas checked boolits in 223, and I assume they also flare the case.

For jacketed rifle bullets I never found the need.

I use just a slight crimp for rifle ammo. This is to knock the burr off the outside of the case mouth that is left after trimming. I would debur if I was shooting for tight groups, but my ammo works fine to minute of steel plate.

[GeoffLinder]

This ^. I had this issue at the VC reloading workshop yesterday. You could push the projectile into the case by simply turning the adjustment knob on the seating die. You could also tap the projectile down by merely bumping it against a hard surface, like a wooden bench. You have to crimp at that point. I have modified my expander ball since then, so it won't happen in the future, but the 1000 pieces of brass that I have that were sized before I modified my expander ball will need to be crimped.

Crimp is not the fix, fixing the expander ball is the fix, good on you for recognizing that and implementing the proper fix :-)

You are better off resizing the 1000 brass that were done wrong first pass than using a crimp to compensate.

[Germz]

Not dropped the hammer. Trying to help but no location. Also if he had read a manual he would have known that bottleneck rifle cases do not get belled/flared.
Too many people jump into reloading with no knowledge, not reading a manual and no location so someone can personally help them and answer the many questions they have.
PS You are a newbie also to the site. If you stay around long enough you will understand what I am saying also.

I don't see how the duration of my membership on Calguns correlates to my knowledge and understanding of reloading. If you're referring to the repetitive question threads (that are easily answered in one google search) that keep being posted I get that.

[Germz]

You don't need to flare the case ASSUMING you are running Jwords and not boolits. I cast my own boolits for 30-06 and 30-30 and I do flare the case to prevent shaving lead from the boolit.

I loaded up some flat base jacketed bullets in 223 for my brother and it only required chamfering or deburring the inside of the case mouth.

I was actually wondering if there is a such thing as a Dillon powder funnel that will slightly flare the case mouth of a 30 cal rifle cartridge. Right now I use an RCBS neck expander die in the first station of the dillon 550. My brass is previously sized on the dillon and then tumbled to remove lube and swaged and trimmed off the press. Some people use cast and gas checked boolits in 223, and I assume they also flare the case.

For jacketed rifle bullets I never found the need.

I use just a slight crimp for rifle ammo. This is to knock the burr off the outside of the case mouth that is left after trimming. I would debur if I was shooting for tight groups, but my ammo works fine to minute of steel plate.

I've seen 22 cal molds that require gas checks but I haven't seen too many lead .223 loads. your velocity would have to be down in like the 2000 - 2200 range and I think thats still pushing it for a boolit.

[Bumslie]

Crimp is not the fix, fixing the expander ball is the fix, good on you for recognizing that and implementing the proper fix :-)

You are better off resizing the 1000 brass that were done wrong first pass than using a crimp to compensate.

So what you're saying Is that dillon and lee are wrong for making their sets that way, and you know better than the industry leaders in reloading?

You're still not answering my question
If the expander ball is oversized, please explain how, without modifying the expander ball, he's going to get the bullet properly seated in place without any setback after he chambers the round.

The set is designed that way, so he has to crimp.

[CGT80]

I've seen 22 cal molds that require gas checks but I haven't seen too many lead .223 loads. your velocity would have to be down in like the 2000 - 2200 range and I think thats still pushing it for a boolit.

I remember people reporting that 1950 fps was a good load that didn't lead. My jacketed 55 grain load is 2950 fps from an 18" barrel, so the cast guys are at 1,000 fps less. They say it is still enough to function the bolt when using 4895 powder at that velocity. My brother and I thought about trying it, but those are some really small boolits to have to lube and gas check, and 55 grain jacketed bullets are not really that expensive when at non political prices.