Long Range .223

[milotrain]

Most people under estimate 223/556 capabilities... or their ownrifle skills. We shot out to 600+ yards at 9" targets and accomplished nearly 100% hits after sight-inyou by a couple of first time shooters off bipods last week.

The load was 55gr Hornady fmj atop 26 gr Varget.

I agree that the .223 is underestimated but 9" at 600 yards with 55gr and new shooters is awfully hard.

I'm not being all mean and yelling "BS!" but I'm humbly suggesting that you might be big fishing it. 9" at 600 yards is 1.5moa, which means your new shooter has less than a 1moa hold, and you aren't seeing any wind whatsoever. Remember a 75gr HPBT will shift around .5MOA per MPH at 600 yards. Which means that the wind couldn't have been shifting more than 2mph all day, and good wind readers have a hard time reading 5mph shifts without flags on a calm day.

This is absolutely true. Many people don't realize that .223 and .308 have very similar trajectories

They do indeed but most people doing the comparison tend to do an (AR 18"/20" .233) vs a (Remington 700 24" .308). They are also not expecting accuracy out of an AR, and therefore don't actually attempt to shoot it at distance. Many people in SoCal don't get a chance to shoot on paper past 300 yards or so and the fish bowl is in full effect (300 yards must be far because I can't shoot any further).

[GeoffLinder]

A 55gr is just about going subsonic at 600 yards and will start to tumble when it does. Unless it is moving out at 3100fps or more it may go subsonic earlier. Also, wind drift is huge at this point as noted above.

Even a 69 gr SMK is just about to go subsonic at 600 yards. You need to push them at near 2900fps to make sure they don't do this. A 77gr SMK is moving above 1400fps at 600 yards and is still fully stabilized.

Below is a ballistics run showing how 55, 69 and 77gr are flying downrange comparatively.

[Hoop]

Ideally I'd say a 52bthp or 69bthp type bullet but right now finding your idea will be hard. Should be able to get started and have fun with anything 55-62gr that you can get your hands on.

[Cypriss32]

Try these:
70gr Berger VLD
73gr Berger Target Boat Tail
75gr Berger VLD
75gr Hornady A-Max


One of those 4 or all will shoot good. Push them hard and fast. Prolly win cases with RL15, or Varget. I bet the AMAX shoot good. Don't give up easily, some 1-9's shoot them. Some don't..........

[sammy]

I would try a 69 grain Nosler or SMK over 24.6 grains of Varget. Works great in my 1/9 20" barrel.

[milotrain]

The 70gr Berger VLD or the 75gr A-MAX will have the smallest bearing surface, best ballistic coefficients, and most suitable weight for your attempt with a 1:9. However you must single load the 75gr A-MAX, the berger 70 VLD was designed for a 1:9, and magazine length COAL. Basically the berger was designed to get as close to what you want to do as possible with a 1:9. Load it hot, but be safe.

[ar15barrels]

I have a Remington 700P in with a 26, 1:9 twist barel. Can someone give me a starting point for a load that will get me out to 3-400 yards?

75gr amax seated to 2.500" oal over 23gr of varget.

[jetman624]

I was on vacation this weekend and had not checked this thread-- huuuuuge thanks to all those who gave their input.

Can't wait to try a few of these out.

[huckberry668]

[QUOTE=milotrain;11651718]I agree that the .223 is underestimated but 9" at 600 yards with 55gr and new shooters is awfully hard.

I'm not being all mean and yelling "BS!" but I'm humbly suggesting that you might be big fishing it. 9" at 600 yards is 1.5moa, which means your new shooter has less than a 1moa hold, and you aren't seeing any wind whatsoever. QUOTE]

There were 4 of us shooting that day and plenty of witnesses. That was their 3rd time shooting center fire rifles with me. But first time shooting out to 600 yards.

At Angeles wind comes from behind us most of the time. We did have to give it about 1 MOA windage to the right for spin drift if I remembered it correctly.

Come out to Angeles Ranges with us one day and we'll show you. Again, people underestimate 223 way too much.

Those of you haven't tried, 600 yards with bipod and bags it isnt' hard at all. You just need a good rifle, ammo, ballistic chart, good technique and a spotter. Those of you haven't tried really should.

[GeoffLinder]

[QUOTE=huckberry668;11688404]

I agree that the .223 is underestimated but 9" at 600 yards with 55gr and new shooters is awfully hard.

I'm not being all mean and yelling "BS!" but I'm humbly suggesting that you might be big fishing it. 9" at 600 yards is 1.5moa, which means your new shooter has less than a 1moa hold, and you aren't seeing any wind whatsoever. QUOTE]

There were 4 of us shooting that day and plenty of witnesses. That was their 3rd time shooting center fire rifles with me. But first time shooting out to 600 yards.

At Angeles wind comes from behind us most of the time. We did have to give it about 1 MOA windage to the right for spin drift if I remembered it correctly.

Come out to Angeles Ranges with us one day and we'll show you. Again, people underestimate 223 way too much.

Those of you haven't tried, 600 yards with bipod and bags it isnt' hard at all. You just need a good rifle, ammo, ballistic chart, good technique and a spotter. Those of you haven't tried really should.

I have tried 600 yards, with 55gr and with 69gr, with and without wind. No wind, fast 55gr (3050fps or better) you can do fine at 600 yards. Put in a variable cross wind of even a few miles per hour and you will NOT get the same results. A 55gr at 3050-3100fps is just about subsonic at 600 yards and it has almost no wind resistance with that flight time (wind resistance is all about velocity and time spent flying).

Even a SMK 69 has issues at 600 yards in cross winds. I shot a 10 on target next to mine at a high power match many moons ago when a sudden wind gust came up. it was only about 12-14 mph, but it put me many, many feet to one side. Wind dropped off and I was back in the black. Had to time my shots when the flags downrange were slack from there on out.

Specialized conditions are what you are talking about here. This is not a generality you can count on. 55gr just don't fly well at extreme distances with any wind perturbation.

[huckberry668]

Shooting anything at 600 yards will need to have certain conditions met. Even a 175 SMK will drift about 3 feet in 10mph cross wind at 600 yards. Wind reading and elevation calculations are basics in long range shooting.

So my point was, long range 223 doesn't just mean 300 yards. Unlike what most people believe, it can go a lot longer. Heck, the same newbie made hits at 400 yards with a non-magnified red dot and the same Hornady 55gr load using my 16" AR carbine on bipod and bags.

[classwarfare]

Army basic training. M-16, iron sights, government ammo, human sized pop-up targets. 300 yards, no sweat!

[J-cat]

69SMK
24.5grs of Varget
CCI Primer
2.300" OAL

[noplay6978]

69 gr hpbt sierra
23.2 gr AR comp
2.26 OAL
2900fps+
The all weather load

[CEDaytonaRydr]

I have a Remington 700P in with a 26, 1:9 twist barel. Can someone give me a starting point for a load that will get me out to 3-400 yards?

You're shooting a bolt gun, with a slower twist. I'd try those Hornady A-max 75gr bullets. They're designed for 1:8 twist, ideally but I don't think a slightly slower twist is going to hurt them that much. These bullets will not work in an AR but they are supposed to be great for bolt guns in .223 and 22-250.

Reloader 15 at about 23.5-24 seems to do very well.