Over Swaging? 223 brass

[xbimmers]

I have been loading 223, 308, and 30-06 rifle rounds with no problems with 308 and 30-06. 223 is another story.

After reloading a batch of 50 (223) and running them through a case gauge, I end up with several rounds that do not check out. The rounds do not fully sit in the guage. They stick out from the base about 1mm. (I've loaded about 400 rounds of 223, just using the batch of 50 as the example)

At first I thought it was the dies. I was initially using Lee dies. So I switched to Redding dies. Same problem. So then I thought I would get the RCBS SB dies. Again, same problem. =(

The only variable is the swaging. (I haven't had to swage any 308 or 30-06 brass) I am wondering if there is such a thing as over swaging that may result in the expansion of the base of the cartridge causing it NOT to guage properly. I have yet to take the caliper to the base of these cases and I will do that tonight.

I thought I would reach out and ask for feedback on my problem. It seems this is happening about 7 to 10 percent of the time.

I use the RCBS swaging die on a RCBS Jr. press. There are times I have to pull hard on the lever to get some brass swaged. Just adding this as a note.

Thank you for any feedback on this. Hopefully it is the way I have the swager set up and only requires some adjustment on my part.

[Chief-7700]

Check the case rim for extractor marks and burrs.

[CityHunt3r]

What does swag mean? you have a picture of what a swagged brass looks like?

[aleng888]

check the neck and the crimp area. see if you push the shoulder back or the neck got deform during the bullet sitting.

[milotrain]

What are you reloading .223 for? if it's for an AR chambered in 5.56 those "oversized cases" will likely run just fine.

[J-cat]

It's called a sizing die and the operation is called sizing.

Are you lubing the inside of the neck? If not, the expander will pull the neck and shoulder forward when the case exits the sizer. This will cause your case to stick out of the gauge.

[CGT80]

OP, do the cases fit in the case gauge after sizing, swaging, and trimming?

Are you belling the case mouth at all?

Are you crimping at all or just seating the bullets?

I use Dillon spray lube so some lube may get in the case mouths, but I don't make an effort to coat the inside. After sizing, the brass gets tumbled again, trimmed, then swaged.

When I load the brass, a universal decapping die takes care of any corn cob in the flash holes and they get primed. Next station is powder, on the 550 dillon, with no belling or flare to the case mouth. 3rd station is seating only, of the boat tail bullets. 4th station is a very slight crimp to knock any burrs off the case from being trimmed.

Carefully watch your brass at each stage and see where it fails to fit the case gauge.

When sizing, which is your first step, the sizing die should almost touch the shellplate. You want to size the brass as far down as possible, without binding the press. Your case gauge will tell you if you have sized enough. Some people size specifically for one rifle, but I feed a mini 14 target model (223 chamber) and an AR-15 (5.56 chamber).

If you haven't read the instructions from some of the die makers, on how to setup dies, or you haven't read a reloading book, you might want to. There might be some good videos on properly setting dies as well.

There is always a possibility that you have a bad case gauge or a tight case gauge. They do vary in size as do chambers of guns. The trick is to figure out how they compare. A tighter case gauge than chamber will be OK. A tighter chamber means that ammo that passes the case gauge might still stick in the chamber. The Barsto barrel I have in my XD was too tight and would only feed factory ammo. It was tighter than my dillon case gauge. I had it finish reamed since it needs to reliably fire reloads while competing against a timer. The accuracy is still just fine for competitive shooting. Bearcreek bullets will cause my ammo to stick slightly in my dillon case gauge, but they clear the chamber just fine. Case gauges won't tell you the whole story.

Let us know what you find after looking closer.

[ExtremeX]

Did you try the same case in the case guage before and after swaging?

That would rule out or confirm if swaging was the issue.

When you swage cases... its wise to sort by headstamp. Different brand cases have different web thickness and can affect how deep the swager goes in. I dont know if on press swaging is the same, but it matters for the dedicated bench mounted swaging tool.

I generally swage the minimum ammount needed to seat a primer.

[ExtremeX]

What are you reloading .223 for? if it's for an AR chambered in 5.56 those "oversized cases" will likely run just fine.

I have a couple rifles with a 5.56 chamber which are very tight, so that's not a safe assumption.

Only way for the OP to really check is to get a cartridge headspace comparator and measure the sized case against a fired case from the same rifle.

If the shoulder bump if sufficient, it would be safe to run.

If the shoulder bump is sufficient, and it sticks up above the min step or max step on the case gauge, it is still safe to run, it just means you have a large chamber. Here is a video example of a correctly sized case that is over the max shelf of a case guage.

[milotrain]

That's a great video.

[xbimmers]

I know the difference between a sizing die and a case gauge. I am talking about the case gauge not the sizing die.

Yes, I spray lube inside the neck.

It's called a sizing die and the operation is called sizing.

Are you lubing the inside of the neck? If not, the expander will pull the neck and shoulder forward when the case exits the sizer. This will cause your case to stick out of the gauge.

[mycrstuff]

Is the brass from your gun or did you buy the brass? If you bought it there is the possibility that the ammo was run through a SAW and that the case head expanded. A small base die might get the case back into specs if the case head did not expand too much.

[mindwreck]

got any pics of your brass after the sizing? and some good rounds vs the bad ones

sizing dies contacting the shellholder?

[J-cat]

I know the difference between a sizing die and a case gauge. I am talking about the case gauge not the sizing die.

I did not say you don't.

I said you are using the wrong terminology for the sizing die. You called it a swaging die. Call it the right name because it's confusing.

Are you saying there is an issue with the sizing die that makes the sized brass not fit your case gauge?

[Bill Steele]

I did not say you don't.

I said you are using the wrong terminology for the sizing die. You called it a swaging die. Call it the right name because it's confusing.

Are you saying there is an issue with the sizing die that makes the sized brass not fit your case gauge?

I think he was referring to the RCBS press mounted swager. I think his question is whether enough brass can be displaced when swaging to spread the head enough to make case gauging a "fail". At least that was my read.