First reloading experience and a question

[Ezkill]

Shooting from an AR? Load up a mag at the range and manually cycle and check the oal. If it doesn't change then shoot them.

Yea, I've done that. With the crimp ...they aren't going to move. Loaded one up without powder or primer and slammed it through a few of my AR's. I was really rough with it. The bullet didn't even move one thousandth of an inch. 2.248 from start to finish on my test bullet after being slammed through various AR's. Ejected and loaded very smoothly in all rifles. Bullet did not move.

[Ezkill]

That ring just below the mouth of the case...any idea what's causing that?

Thats from the crimp die. All of those rounds are crimped.

My crimp ring looks identical to the federal independence 5.56 factory ammo that I compared it to.

[NoNOS67]

I don't crimp mine, but I don't recall seeing it like that on factory ammo either. Looks like a lot of crimp.

[Ezkill]

I don't crimp mine, but I don't recall seeing it like that on factory ammo either. Looks like a lot of crimp.

Can it be crimped too much?

Here is a picture of the factory ammo on left, and mine on the right. Same crimp ring, in the same place. The cannelure on my load is obviously in a different place but that's because they are using a different 55 grain projectile. The cartrides have identical brass length and identical COAL.

Edit: It's flipping the picture. The factory load is the one on the bottom that's more tarnished.

[J-cat]

Crimp has nothing to do with case tension. Crimp is a mechanical cock accomplished by rolling the case mouth into a cannelure. Case tension is accomplished by swaging the case neck through a sizer so that the inside diameter is smaller than the bullet. If you don't have enough neck tension, that means your expander ball is too big. Take the expander out and measure the diameter. What is it?

[Ezkill]

Crimp has nothing to do with case tension. Crimp is a mechanical cock accomplished by rolling the case mouth into a cannelure. Case tension is accomplished by swaging the case neck through a sizer so that the inside diameter is smaller than the bullet. If you don't have enough neck tension, that means your expander ball is too big. Take the expander out and measure the diameter. What is it?

Ok I took apart the lee FL sizing die with some effort. The expander ball is exactly .224. The hornady bullets are exactly .224(calipered right below cannelure) and the inside of a re-sized case mouth wavers between .2235 and .2240...but that could be a function of the micrometer.

[JagerDog]

You need to polish down the expander ball to 0.222"

[Ezkill]

You need to polish down the expander ball to 0.222"

Thank you.

This is the kind of information that you can only get from seasoned re-loaders and people that have experienced the same thing. I'm very grateful for the information.

I've read the books, watched the videos and looked for an answer in a lot of different places. In a short time you guys diagnosed my problem, told me what to look for and gave me logical advice.

Thanks again to everyone who responded, much appreciated.

[GeoffLinder]

Don't just guess, do it by the numbers. You want an interference fit differential of at least .002 for proper neck tension for an autoloader. Remove the expander ball and decapping assembly from your size die. Size a case, measure ID of case mouth, it needs to be no larger than .221, .220 is even better If so, die is doing the proper job of squeezing the neck diameter down. Try several different brands of case, as long as they are all coming out of the die no larger than .221 ID, die is doing it's job.

Then measure the expander ball diameter. At it's widest point, it must be no larger than .2215 to .2220 at absolute max. .223 bullets are .224 diameter, this will provide the proper .002 interference fit needed for autoloaders. If expander ball is even the slightest bit over .222, sand it until it is at or just under .222 then polish it to a smooth finish and you should have no problems from there on out without crimping. Crimping for most rifle rounds is an evil thing to do IMHO. Set your case mouth interference fit properly and you will not need to apply this medieval level of torture to an innocent bullet.

[mark501w]

Place your decapping rod & expander ball in a drill & spin it, use wet or dry or scotch brite to take it down.

[J-cat]

I would not take it down to .222". I would first try for .223" because the case neck will spring back. If you pass a .224" expander ball through a neck the inside diameter is not going to be .224". It's going to be .222" to .223" depending on the hardness of the neck.

The more you reload the case, the harder the case neck will get and the more it will spring back. so case neck tension will increase over time. A .001" increment is alot. Try .223" first. It's less work anyhow.

[Ezkill]

Don't just guess, do it by the numbers. You want an interference fit differential of at least .002 for proper neck tension for an autoloader. Remove the expander ball and decapping assembly from your size die. Size a case, measure ID of case mouth, it needs to be no larger than .221, .220 is even better If so, die is doing the proper job of squeezing the neck diameter down. Try several different brands of case, as long as they are all coming out of the die no larger than .221 ID, die is doing it's job.

Then measure the expander ball diameter. At it's widest point, it must be no larger than .2215 to .2220 at absolute max. .223 bullets are .224 diameter, this will provide the proper .002 interference fit needed for autoloaders. If expander ball is even the slightest bit over .222, sand it until it is at or just under .222 then polish it to a smooth finish and you should have no problems from there on out without crimping. Crimping for most rifle rounds is an evil thing to do IMHO. Set your case mouth interference fit properly and you will not need to apply this medieval level of torture to an innocent bullet.

Yea I pulled it apart last night, the expander ball was .224 on the dot. It's sizing the inside of the case mouth to .2230 to .2235, tried it on 5 cases.

I will sand it down a bit later today.

[Ezkill]

Just shot all the bullets I crimped last night. No problems at all and after shooting it appears that the crimp is pretty much gone so it doesn't seem an issue to crimp them with the Lee Factory Crimp die. Of course I realize that this works the brass more so it might decrease brass life, but there seems to be some debate on wether it actually will or will not decrease brass life.

The highest loads at 26.5 where the most accurate but started to show slight signs of pressure, the primers are slightly flattening out. The 26.0 grain loads have no pressure signs so I think I'll try a 26.2-26.3 load. 25 and 25.5 also shot fairly well and cycled the AR just fine and also no problems with locking the bolt back on the lighter load. I'm really surprised at how much different the gun feels at with just 1.5 grains more. According to the manuals that's like 7,000 PSI more pressure in those 1.5 grains. Quite surprising how fast it scales and I can see how you can get into a lot of trouble if you don't pay attention to how you are loading.

Thanks again for all the input.

[chasjr1]

you can over crimp them , it will distort the projectile and it will turn in the case,you squeeze the bullet out of shape

[Ezkill]

I pulled a few to see if the bullet was distorted after seeing some videos on youtube of what that looks like. I didn't crimp hard enough to distort the bullet so the crimp is "good".