First reloading experience and a question

[Ezkill]

First time reloading and I have a question that I can't find addressed in any of my books or through google.

I've done a lot of research and had a lot of fun learning to reload. I think I've taken every precaution and taken it past reasonable but I've read the horror stories so I'd rather not become a statistic. I think I've gauged every case about 4-5 at different stages through the reloading process. Verified powder weights on 2 different scales. Measured every round for overall length, checked every primer seating depth and then weighed every round after being loaded to check for any large variations. I've worked up a load of 223 bullets with BL-C(2) powder and 55 grain FMJ Hornady boat tail bullets with cannelure and CCI #41 primers. Started at 25 and went up to 26.5. Called CCI to ask about the #41 primers as the information on the internet was all over the place in regards to powder reduction on a "magnum" primer. Some folks say to reduce powder up to 10% which seemed really low for a start. CCI said to start at 25 on the BL-C(2) with a 55 grain FMJ, so I did.

I'm using a Lee turret press with Lee dies. Full re-size on a pile of once fired, mixed brass. Trim to 1.750 and then chamfer and deburr. Primer pockets are uniformed and cleaned on a Lyman case xpress. Then the brass is run through the corn media again to remove case lube. My 4 stages at this point are: Universal deprime(already de-primed but just in case some of the corn is in the flash hole, Powder station, Seating Die and then crimp die...

Here are the questions:

How do you folks get away with not crimping on 223's? I'm confused as to how much neck tension the bullets should have when seated without a crimp. I loaded a couple without a crimp and found I could move the bullets fairly easily. I shouldn't be oversizing the necks as I'm FL resizing with a LEE 223 die. I'm just not getting good tension without a crimp. I can push the bullets back into the case by hand...which worries me since they will be cycled through an AR. I went ahead and crimped all my bullets.

Is there any significant downside to crimping?

[Ghost_Maker]

I found the same issue with the .223 lee FS die.... Lee dude told me to take a piece os 220 sandpaper and pull the sizer and decapping pin and give it a good 30 second shot of sanding... i havent had a problem since...

[milw50717]

Being able to push the bullet back into the case by hand does not sound right at all. You simply should not be able to do this even without a crimp.

I use Hornady 55gr FMJBT bullets and they cannot be pushed into the case when they come out of the sizing die. Because of the boat tail they sit at the top, but I cannot push them all the way into the case.

Are you seating them too deep into the case - are you seating the bullet beyond the cannelure ?

[Ezkill]

Not past the cannelure, no.

At 1.750 brass length and 2.25 cartridge overall length the cannelure sits about half visible.

They are extremely easy to push back into the bullet without a crimp. The neck of brass is identical outside circumference to factory ammo I'm checking it against.

[Ezkill]

I found the same issue with the .223 lee FS die.... Lee dude told me to take a piece os 220 sandpaper and pull the sizer and decapping pin and give it a good 30 second shot of sanding... i havent had a problem since...

That's great I'll try this.

To answer the other question. No you can't push the bullets into the brass by hand when first loading them. Because of the boat tail they just sit on top when going into the seating die. However, when they are seated to a COAL of 2.25 you can push them all the way in fairly easily.

[mroels]

You should be able to lean (not really push down) on the round without the bullet moving.

Before sanding the decapping pin measure the inside of a case neck, measure the bullet diameter (hornady has had some knock-offs), measure the diameter of the decapping pin. Measure everything before altering anything.

[mroels]

Also are you using a headspace gauge?

[Ezkill]

You should be able to lean (not really push down) on the round without the bullet moving.

Before sanding the decapping pin measure the inside of a case neck, measure the bullet diameter (hornady has had some knock-offs), measure the diameter of the decapping pin. Measure everything before altering anything.

Will do....I just got the bullets from Midway on Thursday so I assume they are not knock offs, but that is sound advice.

Does anyone think that these crimped bullets that can't be moved can in any way be a problem to fire? I mean the bullet can not be moved and all of my factory 5.56 are crimped with an almost identical crimp in the same spot on the cannelure.

[Ezkill]

Also are you using a headspace gauge?

If you mean like the LE Wilson 223 gauge, yes...religiously. Every case has been through the gauge 4-5 times at various stages through the reloading process. They all slide in easily, sit flush on the primer side and just come out the top of the gauge on the neck side.

[milw50717]

Maybe try to do one step at a time and try to determine where the problem resides. The most obvious steps are in the resizing and trimming stages.

If you take a new untrimmed & unsized piece of brass and place a bullet on top, see if it will push in to any great depth.

Lubricate the brass and put through the sizing die and then seat a bullet. If the bullet is loose at this point then the sizing die does seem to be the issue.

If it is not loose and cannot be pushed back into the case, check using another 'new' piece of brass. Size it and then trim. Now seat the bullet. If loose then trimming is somehow be causing the issue. Pull the bullet, pass through the sizer and seat a bullet to see if this helps.

Do you actually need to trim the brass ? I have a lot of once fired RG 5.56 that I am currently reloading and I have no need to trim as the brass is within spec as is.

I'd call Lee to see what they say. If they suggest the same sandpaper solution that ghost_maker got remind them about the use of the word 'precision' in their company name

[mroels]

Will do....I just got the bullets from Midway on Thursday so I assume they are not knock offs, but that is sound advice.

Does anyone think that these crimped bullets that can't be moved can in any way be a problem to fire? I mean the bullet can not be moved and all of my factory 5.56 are crimped with an almost identical crimp in the same spot on the cannelure.

Shooting from an AR? Load up a mag at the range and manually cycle and check the oal. If it doesn't change then shoot them.

[mroels]

what kind of trimmer do you use?

[NoNOS67]

What area are you in? Maybe someone local could take a look.

[Ezkill]

Thanks for all the advice folks....

I'll try a lot of this step by step stuff when I get some more supplies. For now, I have no new brass that I can use to verify some of the steps you folks have suggested. Basically I've been cobbling together reloading stuff for months and to keep myself entertained I've been sizing it.

The cutter I'm using is the Lee hand trimmer on the Zip trim and now a Lee Deluxe trimmer that goes right on the turret. No I didn't need to trim it all...most of it was in spec, below 1.760. However, I wanted to uniform it all. I had the brass before I had powder and bullets so I went through the process of sizing, setting up my dies, learning to trim, chamfer and debur before all of my components arrived. I knew the size I was going for and had the gauge to verify if what I was doing was correct. Basically I was learning as components arrived without being able to complete the process until today.

I'm in west Los Angeles, Santa Monica/Venice area.

Here is a picture of the loads...25, 25.5, 26 and 26.5.

[NoNOS67]

That ring just below the mouth of the case...any idea what's causing that?