Do these 308 Win look OK

[G38xOC]

Do these 308 primer look OK. Is there any indication that these load were hot? 168SMK with 44 grains of Varget at 2708fps.
[ATTACH]172019[/ATTACH]

did you reduce amount of powder in LC brass ?
what was OAL ?

I havent test my loads yet , but im beginning to think my loads are too light now after looking at yours

[johncmng]

Your target is too big.
That's about a 2moa target.
Now try with a 1 moa target and see how many you keep on it at 615yds...

That was the farthest distance I could find at Tumey Hills. Also, I was not shooting at my optimal position. I was shooting with just the bipod on a folding table with someone next to me as well. I'm sure I can get on target more accurately if I was shooting prone. I'll let you know the next time I come back from Tumey Hills, I may have found a place to shoot 1120 yards.

[johncmng]

did you reduce amount of powder in LC brass ?
what was OAL ?

I havent test my loads yet , but im beginning to think my loads are too light now after looking at yours

No, I haven't reduce any of the charges. My OAL was 2.800

[johncmng]

True.
Not everyone is trying to be precise either.
I see that is the case here so the mixed headstamps certainly won't matter when 2moa precision is the goal.
I mistook a precision rifle owner for a precision rifle shooter.
Carry on, nothing to see here...


Here is a nice 600yd group:

That's 0.16 moa under a short time limit, bipod and a rear bag, laying in the gravel.

My goal is to hit a 1 square foot target out to 1000 yards. No way for me to see out that far to set up a bullseye to check how close each shot is to each other

[damndave]

The reason I asked is the primers look to have a gritty or rough look like the bolt face is rough or textured in a light sand blast. Could you post a pic of the bolt face.

That is actually perfectly normal for a R700.


You really should match headstamps. Making good handloads is all about consistency. Taking the extra couple of minutes to sort brass is nothing when you are trying to get sub .5 moa. Just that little difference will make a big difference when shooting out to 1k.


With 168SMK I found that the sweet spot is around 44.2-44.4gr Varget on that rifle.

[johncmng]

That is actually perfectly normal for a R700.


You really should match headstamps. Making good handloads is all about consistency. Taking the extra couple of minutes to sort brass is nothing when you are trying to get sub .5 moa. Just that little difference will make a big difference when shooting out to 1k.


With 168SMK I found that the sweet spot is around 44.2-44.4gr Varget on that rifle.

OK, I'll give it s try. I'll sort the bass according to the headstamp. But just out of curiosity, what make the different brass, well different? After the brass is fire form and neck trimmed, what make the brass so different?

[gau17]

OK, I'll give it s try. I'll sort the bass according to the headstamp. But just out of curiosity, what make the different brass, well different? After the brass is fire form and neck trimmed, what make the brass so different?

Volume. Some brass is thicker than others.

[gau17]

That was the farthest distance I could find at Tumey Hills. Also, I was not shooting at my optimal position. I was shooting with just the bipod on a folding table with someone next to me as well. I'm sure I can get on target more accurately if I was shooting prone. I'll let you know the next time I come back from Tumey Hills, I may have found a place to shoot 1120 yards.

You might want to switch to 175 SMK or heavier if you are planning on shooting past 800 yds.

[Bill Steele]

OK, I'll give it s try. I'll sort the bass according to the headstamp. But just out of curiosity, what make the different brass, well different? After the brass is fire form and neck trimmed, what make the brass so different?

I agree with gau17, manufacturers use different thicknesses of brass and also very widely in web construction, etc. These differences make internal volumes very which affects the pressure and resultant velocity a given projectile will achieve in a given load with a given gun.

Even more maddening is some headstamps (within the headstamp and even date manufactured) will vary a great deal in volume, while others will be very consistent.

Many who shoot bench rest or have high consistency expectations will sort within headstamp by weight, some down as tight as +/- one grain lots. Some will sort by actual volume, testing the volume of each case and grouping by that criteria.

How important this case sorting is depends a lot on your expectations of accuracy, the gun you are shooting and how tight other parameters are in your loads.

It can either fascinate you or drive you crazy.

[johncmng]

Volume. Some brass is thicker than others.

I agree with you on the volume part. But I'm still loading it with exactly 44 grains of powder. Does it have to do with the burn rate with different volume?

[gau17]

You will end up with different pressures. There are other factors that can increase/decrease pressure like seating depth.

Think of 2 liter bottle of coke. Shake it and open the bottle. Take a half filled one and do the same.

Please do not take this the wrong way, but it sounds like you need to slow down and read up on reloading. I don't want you to hurt yourself or someone else.

Be safe.

[ar15barrels]

I agree with you on the volume part. But I'm still loading it with exactly 44 grains of powder. Does it have to do with the burn rate with different volume?

If you burn a constant volume of powder in different sized combustion chambers, your resulting pressures will be different.
Different pressures will then give you different velocities.
Different velocities will cause your group size to open up on target.

[damndave]

Like some others have said...If planning to stretch it out past 600yrds I would switch to either 175SMK or 178gr A-Max. Both of those shoot great at 1k with 44gr Varget. Adjust that load as necessary to your rifle though.

[ar15barrels]

I did some more illustrations to teach this stuff...

First, Accuracy vs. Precision:



If you are not first both precise AND accurate, you can't really get into the good stuff of precision shooting where things like brass and loads really matter.

Let's assume you HAVE reached the point in your shooting where you can call your shots and you KNOW when something is right and when something is wrong.
THEN you can look at this illustration of a target at 400yds or more and it will make more sense:



You have to be shooting at longer distances to really see the patterns above, but when you do, the following rules generally apply:
Stringing on the horizontal axis is purely wind compensation skill.
As you get better at doping the wind, your groups will shrink on the horizontal axis.
Stringing on the vertical axis is caused by velocity variation (also measured as ES if you use a chronograph).
As you tighten up your ES, your groups are also capable of shrinking substantially.
There is another factor here as well, tuning the load to your barrel.
You can have really low ES, yet still see vertical stringing.
This is usually caused by your load not putting the bullet release at one of the ends of the barrel's harmonics.
When you find the best load via a ladder test, you are finding a load that releases the bullet at the top or bottom of a node.
This makes the gun more tolerant of small pressure variations.