*kthooooop* ...Dangit... Squib round?!?!

[trigger hippie]

$57 for 500 bullets, I figure. Hey, how bad could that be. I ordered up 500x 200gn "LeadSafe" bullets. They're plated lead - they cast lead, dip it in some electroplating solution, they come out coated in copper. They advise to use equivalent data for lead loads, so I go to the Lyman book, load a sequence of test rounds in 0.2 gn increments and it's off to the range I go.

I seem to settle at around 5.5 gn, surprisingly; 5.0gn seems not to reliably cycle the slide. Going home, I discover my recoil spring needs replacing... bad... it's about 2/3rds in length what it should be. OK. Replace it with an 18lb, back to the range with another test sequence loaded.

This time round... TWO squib loads from this 500 pack. Running from 3.6 to 5.6gn; 3.6 doesn't cycle the slide reliably, regular overpressure signs at 5.6 but 5.4 is fine; I figure now my load is 5.4gn, maybe 5.5gn if I'm loading match bullets and I want to be on the safe side of power factor. I put a fairly aggressive crimp on my bullets as I know my recoil spring is going to push them fairly hard on load.

The last squib, I pull the trigger, I don't hear a "bang", I hear a "kthoooop" - like a ball getting sucked into a vaccuum cleaner. Ahhh, dangit, I think. Fricking squib round.

Both squib rounds are heavily dented with relief shapes of the barrel lands - as if I'd half-heartedly slugged the barrel and stopped halfway.

Talking with some folks online and in person, it seems like the culprit might be bullet stickiness or lack of lubrication, or oversize bullets. Looking at the imprint of the lands, I'm inclined to think these may be slightly oversize - perhaps irregular plating.

Now I'm looking at the remaining, oh, 300 or so bullets and thinking... damn... do I really want to load these?

I'm thinking I'll caliper the remaining bullets and discard any that are out of spec; I figure anything past the nominal diameter of 0.451 I'll discard. /sigh.

Avoid these Rainiers like the plague. Actually, come to think of it, you can just put a mask on to avoid the plague, but firing a round after a squib will outright give you a very bad injury, so avoid these like something worse than the plague. edit: or consider safer reloading practices

They've been nothing but headache. The Hornady 185 XTPs and 230gn XTPs I've been working with otherwise shoot fine, it's just these damn things. Back to the drawing board for a cheap plinking round design...

[ExtremeX]

Thanks for the heads up.

[Bill Steele]

If you had sufficient powder, a lack of lubrication, stickiness or even over sized bullets will not cause a stuck bullet. I have shot lead bullets .003" over the groove diameter with no problems.

It would help to know what powder you were loading.

Likely you had missed a few when measuring your powder. A primer only will move a bullet enough to stick it in the lands.

I am not a fan of plated bullets, but I don't think your issues are the bullets.

[johnny1290]

As a guy that'sruined a barrel slugging it-don't ask-I'd toss them. Life's too short for that kind of hassle. But then I *hate* squibs.

[sunborder]

I would be MUCH more inclined to blame powder or primers (or lack of powder) than an oversize bullet stopping in the lands.

Your old recoil spring is also a bit odd, though, given the timing of the new bullets.

When you pulled the squib out of the barrel, did a bunch of powder come out of the shell? Did it look un-burned?

[trigger hippie]

Using Bullseye, btw.

The first squib was I'm pretty sure a legit squib; felt a bang, perceptible recoil, I had to cycle the action to get the spent case out (not unusual in the very weak starting loads). I wonder if there could be some interaction between the weak recoil spring and the squib round in that case?

Hmmm. I saw a fair bit of powder residue when I pulled the bullet on the second squib. On the other hand, if there had been an actual decent load - like the very light 3.6 gn I was using at the low end of the series - I would have at least felt a 'bang', much less heard at least a soft one that would have been louder than the kind of pneumatic sound I heard. edit: I'm thinking now I loaded and maybe charged a spent case, or had a dud primer (CCI #500 Small Pistol). The firing pin would then have pushed the bullet forward and produced the noise I heard. The bullet still should've been withdrawn when I pulled the slide back to eject the spent casing, however. It's not inconceivable that a spent case snuck into my seating run, or that I could have accidentally placed one of my test seatings for length into the "ready to fire" pile. I need to re-examine my charging/bullet-seating procedure, it looks like.

Also, if the round was short charged and when I pulled the trigger, the primer detonated but only blew the bullet, that would explain why I heard a "kchoooong" kind of sound... although I would expect a primer det inside a pistol to be loud (or at least perceptible, even in a steel pistol).

It is nonetheless possible that it was a short throw on my part. I've been trying to be pretty good with charging and seating immediately.

The really odd thing that's puzzling me is a bite-mark like pattern on the front of the bullet. There's no way something that obvious would pass my (obviously rudimentary) QA, so I'm thinking it's an artifact of firing. I'll post some pics tomorrow when I get a chance.

Interestingly, when I try to fit either bullet back in the barrel from the muzzle end, it doesn't even pass all the way down the ogive. Both seem to have stuck somewhere in the feedramp area. The land-and-groove indentations on the first (legit) squib end half-way up the bullet, suggesting an oversized bullet combined with a weak load in that case...?

The really odd thing is, I haven't had any similar problem with the Hornady 185 XTPs or the 230 XTPs I've been loading. Or for that matter with any factory ammo.

[ejhc11]

Give the X-treme plated bullets a go next time, they seem fine for me in 230gr. I'm loading mine above 800fps and same powder specs as fmjs. Also, used them successfully in my 40SW too.

[the86d]

Give the X-treme plated bullets a go next time, they seem fine for me in 230gr. I'm loading mine above 800fps and same powder specs as fmjs. Also, used them successfully in my 40SW too.

I did LOVE the X-Treme plated 115gr in 9mm, and had less problems than Berry's (shaving off part of the copper [lighter plating/misshapen?] ) with 2k, I only shaved like 5, and with berry's I think I was getting about double that...

[264Grendel]

I have these bullets. Loaded 20 test rounds with 5.8 gr(If i remember correctly) of Universal Clays using various brass and CCI primers. Not one issue with the 20 rounds shot out of a Springfield 1911 GI.

[Cheep]

The bullet isn't going to give you a squib, its the primer or lack of powder. I use Rainier in 50Beowulf and S&W500 and like the way those work, discard them my way...

[Bill Steele]

For a 200gr Rainer (I am assuming you are shooting a .45ACP), according to Bullseye your start load is 5.2grs and max is 5.8grs. 5.2grs should cycle your gun fine.

Your squibs were lack of powder (or no powder), or possibly contaminated primers (but likely not).

For a while with these bullets (until you get the notion of bad bullets out of your head), you should throw and weigh each powder drop and seat the bullet immediately after the drop, that is, no batch processing, no chance of a missed charge.

After you have confirmed that the bullets were not the problem, you need to develop a loading system that assures you don't miss charges.

Have fun, good luck.

[One78Shovel]

I have these bullets. Loaded 20 test rounds with 5.8 gr(If i remember correctly) of Universal Clays using various brass and CCI primers. Not one issue with the 20 rounds shot out of a Springfield 1911 GI.

I use 5.4 grains of UC for my Kimber with Berry's bullets. Get a shaver every now and then, especially is you have not belled the case enough.

-178S

[M27]

I am on the side that it is not a bullet issue

I believe Rainier are .452 to begin with even if they were .453 they would strip there platting before they got stuck in the barrel, that steel barrel is way harder than that thin copper, or not go into battery.

also that "fairly aggressive crimp" is a big don't with plated bullets, bell as little as possible then crimp just enough to remove the bell and if you really feel like it is necessary a 1/4 turn more at most

with that many squibs, even at 3.6gn which has to be at least 7000psi should be plenty to send the projectile out the barrel. I feel you need to pay more attention to your reloading procedures 50 pieces belled, primed brass in the reloading tray, charge all 50, then with a flashlight visually confirm every one is charged and not double charged

[shooterbill]

It's not the bullets. It is the one pulling the handle on the press.

[bruce381]

Not to be a jerk but your problem is in the loading IE you are not doing it right. I have shot them, 5.0-5.5 gr Bulleye and no poblems.

Start of with a decent load and make sure all the varibles are correct as in sizing, priming etc .

i use a OAL of about 1.250 with a tapper crimp to .471-.472

double check your setup a squib is always a powder issue.