45LC, Trailboss, Uberti cattleman

[scrat]

thats a lot of powder 6 grains is all i have ever used

[lpspinner]

As Cowboy T mentioned.... There is usually two listings for .45 Long Colt....

one is specially for Ruger, Freedom Arms & Thompson Contenders

and the second is for any other brands.

If you are not loading for the first three, then follower the category for all replicas/others.

For me, I'm using Titegroup as well with a 200gr SWC.

[bandook]

In a Starline 45 Colt case, 230gr bullet, a 100% (uncompressed) charge is in the vicinity pf 9.3 grains. so with the 255 gr bullet, you're probably running at close to 100%.

[bandook]

Hey thanks for all the effort I really appeciate it! I talked to my friend I think were gonna shoot them in his Ruger. then reload them at the 5.8 IMR recomends. Better safe than sorry.

Excellent Idea.

[CGT80]

I have run up to 8.5 grains of TB in a 45lc case with a cast 270 SAA HP bullet, and it was very soft, but it was shot from an S&W 460. This should have been a max load for TB-filled to the bullet.

TB sometimes works better at light to mid load data, when looking for accuracy and consistency.

I like win 231 for 45lc loads, but the bulk of TB is nice. TB is great for light loads in the big 460 cases. 231 isn't even listed for use in 460, so TB gets used.

[EmmaGoldman]

Trail Boss is nearly as fast as Bullseye and somewhere I saw a graph that showed pressures rising more and more quickly as charges were increased with TB.

I would pull these loads, if they were mine.

[Cowboy T]

I have run up to 8.5 grains of TB in a 45lc case with a cast 270 SAA HP bullet, and it was very soft, but it was shot from an S&W 460. This should have been a max load for TB-filled to the bullet.

That rule works for rifles, but remember that this is a Colt SAA clone that is spec'd to take only 14,000 PSI loads. That S&W 460 is built to take 60,000 PSI, so you can easily get away with what you're doing.

[CGT80]

.....but it was shot from an S&W 460. TB sometimes works better at light to mid load data, when looking for accuracy and consistency.

That rule works for rifles, but remember that this is a Colt SAA clone that is spec'd to take only 14,000 PSI loads. That S&W 460 is built to take 60,000 PSI, so you can easily get away with what you're doing.

Exactly my point as well. It depends on the gun, and the max loads aren't always the best loads. I wasn't stating that the load should be used for an old single action, but that it was the max load I found using the 100-70% trail boss formula.

Trail boss may be better suited for the 45lc than some other powders, since it is bulky and easy to see in the case. My hot loads in 45lc with win 231 (for standard pressure, not ruger loads) don't fill the case much. I'm sure a close to full case would be quite bad even for the hand cannons.

Since we are talking about case capacity for trail boss powder. I found a 100% filled load in 460 to the bottom of a 270 bullet with TB was 14 grains.

[Bill Steele]

That rule works for rifles, but remember that this is a Colt SAA clone that is spec'd to take only 14,000 PSI loads. That S&W 460 is built to take 60,000 PSI, so you can easily get away with what you're doing.

I get your point and staying within load guidelines is always a good thing, but to put things in perspective though, 11grs of TB in a 460S&W with a 325gr bullet makes about 20K PSI.

[Cowboy T]

20,000 PSI admittedly doesn't sound like much... but remember, that's in a .460 S&W case. Those things are huge! We're talking a .45 Colt case, with less space and thus likely somewhat more pressure. Also, the 460 gun is much stronger. We can do a whole lot of things with .460 S&W and .454 Casull that we don't dare try in a SAA or clone. And even 20,000 PSI is too much for a gun rated for only 14K.

Not trying to dog or otherwise put down anyone here, just making sure the OP knows to be careful with hotter loads in those SAA clones.

[Bill Steele]

20,000 PSI admittedly doesn't sound like much... but remember, that's in a .460 S&W case. Those things are huge! We're talking a .45 Colt case, with less space and thus likely somewhat more pressure. Also, the 460 gun is much stronger. We can do a whole lot of things with .460 S&W and .454 Casull that we don't dare try in a SAA or clone. And even 20,000 PSI is too much for a gun rated for only 14K.

Not trying to dog or otherwise put down anyone here, just making sure the OP knows to be careful with hotter loads in those SAA clones.

I totally agree with the sentiment that when in doubt, don't shoot it.

As far as the difference between the OP's load and the 460S&W load I referenced, I think the pressure would actually be less than the 20K PSI of the larger caliber, I mean the available case volume is about the same as the additional charge by volume, the bullet is 33% larger using the same bore, etc.

What is greatly puzzling is the Hodgdon website clearly says ANY cartridge can be safely loaded by fillling the case to where the bullet seats, this is the maximum charge under this guideline. I doubt they would leave this up on their website if there were exceptions to this rule of thumb. I mean with as much TB as is being loaded around the Cowboy circuit, for sure, reports of blown up guns with Trail Boss would abound if this load guideline had any holes in it.

But again, definitely it is better safe than sorry.

[scotty99]

I totally agree with the sentiment that when in doubt, don't shoot it.

As far as the difference between the OP's load and the 460S&W load I referenced, I think the pressure would actually be less than the 20K PSI of the larger caliber, I mean the available case volume is about the same as the additional charge by volume, the bullet is 33% larger using the same bore, etc.

What is greatly puzzling is the Hodgdon website clearly says ANY cartridge can be safely loaded by fillling the case to where the bullet seats, this is the maximum charge under this guideline. I doubt they would leave this up on their website if there were exceptions to this rule of thumb. I mean with as much TB as is being loaded around the Cowboy circuit, for sure, reports of blown up guns with Trail Boss would abound if this load guideline had any holes in it.

But again, definitely it is better safe than sorry.

Lots of cowboy action guys use Clays. If you fill a .45lc case with Clays and shoot it in a SAA or '66-'73 series rifle, I sure don't want to be anywhere near you when it goes off. These black powder cases can hold A LOT of powder. Trail Boss exists mostly because a .45lc case will hold close to 3X the safe max of a modern fast powder like Clays.

[dangerranger]

Lots of cowboy action guys use Clays. If you fill a .45lc case with Clays and shoot it in a SAA or '66-'73 series rifle, I sure don't want to be anywhere near you when it goes off. These black powder cases can hold A LOT of powder. Trail Boss exists mostly because a .45lc case will hold close to 3X the safe max of a modern fast powder like Clays.

The Tite Group I use would do the same if I filled the case. Probably just from a double charge. Its near the top of the chart for fast burning powders. You have to be careful. I use it tho because its clean burning , economical and accurate. DR

[Cowboy T]

Did some searching this morning. Bill's correct in that there is a publication that says, and I quote:

"we have a formula for developing loads for all cartridges and it's simple to follow. This formula may be used in both rifle and pistol applications:"

and they then go on to state the formula. The publication is here.

http://www.imrpowder.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf

So, yes, IMR/Hodgdon do say this. I had thought it was for rifle cartridges only, but they clearly do say "rifle and pistol applications". Given the .45 Colt's stated pressure limits, I'm thinking they probably had the higher pressure cartridges (e. g. .460 S&W, .480 Ruger) in mind when they wrote this document. That's just a guess, though.