45LC, Trailboss, Uberti cattleman

[Tghgy2]

I was given some 255gr RNFP 45Lc rounds loaded with 8.2 grains of trailboss.Can I shoot these in the Uberti 1873 cattleman clone. IMR web site list 5.8gr max for the 255gr 45LC. Any help or guidence would be appreciated.

I know they have 8.2gr in them because I was there when they were loaded.

[XDRoX]

The good news is it's practically impossible to kaboom a gun with TB as long as it's not a compressed load. But why would somebody use so much TB

TB excels in light to medium loads especially with lead. Why somebody would choose it to load hot is beyond me. There are about a dozen better powders.

Never compress TB.

[Tghgy2]

The good news is it's practically impossible to kaboom a gun with TB as long as it's not a compressed load. But why would somebody use so much TB

TB excels in light to medium loads especially with lead. Why somebody would choose it to load hot is beyond me. There are about a dozen better powders.

Never compress TB.

Thank you

[Tghgy2]

I think the powder manufacturers publish their max loads so people won't blow their gun up and hurt themselves.

IMR also publishes a load procedure for use in cowboy loads. They state that by marking the case where the bullet is seated and filling the case to that point, you are safe pressure wise. My .44 RM's hold over 11grs of Trail Boss to the case mouth. .45 LC will hold more powder than a .44 so thinking a 255gr bullet won't take more than 25% of the .45 LC case volume (crimped at the cannelure) using IMR's basic load advice, you should be GTG.

You need to check my math on the above though, before dropping the hammer.

Thank you I saw that on IMRs web site earlier but just wanted some advice. I will check the math. Thanks again

[Bill Steele]

Thank you I saw that on IMRs web site earlier but just wanted some advice. I will check the math. Thanks again

Yes well, I deleted my first post because I am now in a little doubt myself. I went back and checked my notes and it would appear a .45LC should be able to hold well over 11grs of TB, so according to this data your load should be fine with a 255gr lead bullet crimped at the cannelure.

Unfortunately, when I looked at my Lee 2nd edition, it says your case holds 1.93 cc's, which pencils out to like 8.9grs of TB and that would mean you are compressing the 8.2gr load and hence over IMR's safe load guidelines.

This is puzzling to me as I am pretty careful with my notes and my notes clearly say 11 grs for a full .44 case (which is decidedly smaller than a .45 LC case).

Hopefully someone will happen along who actually loads TB in .45LC with a full case and a 255gr lead bullet.

Sorry for the confusion, it is probably better to get a little more specific advice before shooting them.

[Bill Steele]

OK, this one piqued my interest enough I actually went down and measured things with a scale.

I gave my last bottle of TB away to "Emma Goldman", so I used a different powder and backed into the number using relative VMD's. Accounting for some tolerance buildup for the worst case (i.e. thick brass, tight sizing die, variance in VMD from batch to batch, etc.), you still should be able to get 12grs of TB in a .45LC case when filled to the rim.

The longest 255gr bullet I could find will take up about 30% of the case volume when crimped to the cannelure, so 70% of 12grs yields a practical usable case volume of TB of 8.4grs (i.e. using IMR's fill to the base of the bullet guideline).

The good news then is if you are loading lead and not something like an all copper Barnes bullet, you won't be compressing the TB with that load. The bad news is you are likely very close to IMR's max load using their fill the case to the base of the bullet guideline.

I think before shooting them, I would give Hodgdon a call and ask about the difference between their published max load in their load data and their fill to the base of the bullet guideline and assure a .45LC filled to the base of the bullet will still be safe, as it clearly is over their published max.

If you do decide to give them a try, load 1 only and after shooting it, check for signs of over pressure (i.e. case hard to eject, flattened primer, split case at the waist, etc.). My guess is even at this max level, the load will feel light compared to other denser powders.

Of course, all of the above hinges on the supposition you were actually loading 8.2grs...

Good luck, have fuin.

[bandook]

Some compression seems to be ok for Trail Boss. (see max load for 200gr lead in 45acp )

OP, you should be fine...

If you want the weight of a full case (minus seating depth of a 200gr bullet) of Trail Boss in a Starline 45colt case, I can go get it for you this afternoon...

[Tghgy2]

OK, this one piqued my interest enough I actually went down and measured things with a scale.

I gave my last bottle of TB away to "Emma Goldman", so I used a different powder and backed into the number using relative VMD's. Accounting for some tolerance buildup for the worst case (i.e. thick brass, tight sizing die, variance in VMD from batch to batch, etc.), you still should be able to get 12grs of TB in a .45LC case when filled to the rim.

The longest 255gr bullet I could find will take up about 30% of the case volume when crimped to the cannelure, so 70% of 12grs yields a practical usable case volume of TB of 8.4grs (i.e. using IMR's fill to the base of the bullet guideline).

The good news then is if you are loading lead and not something like an all copper Barnes bullet, you won't be compressing the TB with that load. The bad news is you are likely very close to IMR's max load using their fill the case to the base of the bullet guideline.

I think before shooting them, I would give Hodgdon a call and ask about the difference between their published max load in their load data and their fill to the base of the bullet guideline and assure a .45LC filled to the base of the bullet will still be safe, as it clearly is over their published max.

If you do decide to give them a try, load 1 only and after shooting it, check for signs of over pressure (i.e. case hard to eject, flattened primer, split case at the waist, etc.). My guess is even at this max level, the load will feel light compared to other denser powders.

Of course, all of the above hinges on the supposition you were actually loading 8.2grs...

Good luck, have fuin.

Hey thanks for all the effort I really appeciate it! I talked to my friend I think were gonna shoot them in his Ruger. then reload them at the 5.8 IMR recomends. Better safe than sorry. Thanks again for the Guidence and effort to keep me safe! PS If your a father Happy Fathers day.

[Tghgy2]

Some compression seems to be ok for Trail Boss. (see max load for 200gr lead in 45acp )

OP, you should be fine...

If you want the weight of a full case (minus seating depth of a 200gr bullet) of Trail Boss in a Starline 45colt case, I can go get it for you this afternoon...

I have 255gr bullet but any info would be helpfull Thank you

[Whiterabbit]

I'd personally never compress trailboss even if it could be, but this concern seems quite common:

http://www.imrpowder.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf

http://www.google.com/search?q=45+colt+load+data+trailboss+max+load+is+low&rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-us&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1&oq=45+colt+load+data+trailboss+max+load+is+low

[Cowboy T]

Just checked Lyman's 49th. DO NOT SHOOT THOSE IN THAT UBERTI! Here's the listed load data for SAAMI-spec .45 Colt and a 250gr LRNFP.

Min: 5.1gr, velocity 762fps, pressure 11,000 CUP
Max: 5.8gr, velocity 813fps, pressure 12,500 CUP

Therefore, an 8.2gr load looks very hot for any Colt SAA's or their clones. From these stats, you are very likely to blow up that Uberti of yours with that load.

Now, if it were 8.2gr of Unique, then that'd be different. Max load for Unique is 9.0gr, so 8.2 would be just fine.

If you want to shoot those hot loads, then please only do so in a Magnum-strength gun, something like a .454 Casull firearm or a Ruger Redhawk/Blackhawk.

[dangerranger]

I quit using Trail Boss for two reasons

First I couldn't find a real accurate load. I tried several bullets, and several powder weights for each bullet And even with full recommended loads the velocity varied between shots so much I couldn't find an acceptable load even for cowboy shooting.

second It looked like an inexpensive powder till I realized that I wasn't getting a whole pound in a 1 lb can. Only about 9 oz.

I settled on Tight Group. there's very little variation between shots, it drops accurately out of any powder measure Ive tried and I get near 1000 loads from a 1lb can. I use as little as 3gr under a 230gr lead bullet for cowboy action loads. And my guns are nearly as clean after a day of shooting as when I left home.
To get a good accurate load for your 255gr lead bullet would be only between 4 and 6gr. 6 gr would be a stout load. DR

[Tghgy2]

Just checked Lyman's 49th. DO NOT SHOOT THOSE IN THAT UBERTI! Here's the listed load data for SAAMI-spec .45 Colt and a 250gr LRNFP.

Min: 5.1gr, velocity 762fps, pressure 11,000 CUP
Max: 5.8gr, velocity 813fps, pressure 12,500 CUP

Therefore, an 8.2gr load looks very hot for any Colt SAA's or their clones. From these stats, you are very likely to blow up that Uberti of yours with that load.

Now, if it were 8.2gr of Unique, then that'd be different. Max load for Unique is 9.0gr, so 8.2 would be just fine.

If you want to shoot those hot loads, then please only do so in a Magnum-strength gun, something like a .454 Casull firearm or a Ruger Redhawk/Blackhawk.

Thanks I think thats what Im gonna do

[Tghgy2]

I'd personally never compress trailboss even if it could be, but this concern seems quite common:

http://www.imrpowder.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf

http://www.google.com/search?q=45+co...ax+load+is+low

Thanks I saw those in my research thats part of the reason I came here. I appreciate it

[Tghgy2]

I quit using Trail Boss for two reasons

First I couldn't find a real accurate load. I tried several bullets, and several powder weights for each bullet And even with full recommended loads the velocity varied between shots so much I couldn't find an acceptable load even for cowboy shooting.

second It looked like an inexpensive powder till I realized that I wasn't getting a whole pound in a 1 lb can. Only about 9 oz.

I settled on Tight Group. there's very little variation between shots, it drops accurately out of any powder measure Ive tried and I get near 1000 loads from a 1lb can. I use as little as 3gr under a 230gr lead bullet for cowboy action loads. And my guns are nearly as clean after a day of shooting as when I left home.
To get a good accurate load for your 255gr lead bullet would be only between 4 and 6gr. 6 gr would be a stout load. DR

thanks